General Theory: When to call raises to draw?

[CrustyFace]

In the past 2 weeks i have really turned my game around with the help of another user of this forum. I used to be aggressive preflop and timid post flop, not even cbet'ing much of the time and therefore i would have to rely on getting lucky in big pots. Well now my game has changed and i am even more aggressive preflop, nearly always cbetting and also pressing on 4th and 5th if i see fit. I 3bet alot preflop too and people don't like it.

This style of poker wins me alot of hands preflop and on the flop, which i like. I build an image of having the hand that the others don't want me to have, which ofcourse is powerful.

One thing though is i rarely draw.

My question is, do i base calling preflop raises with draws solely on odds. I find im not really ever doing this. I don't only mean FDs and SDs, but also when i have two over cards to a low flop. All i seem to find is that i rarely ever get nice odds to draw simply because the bettor is giving me the same nasty pot odds that i give them with my style.

So do you have any suggestions. The way i am playing is profitable so i don't have to change, but i certainly want to find other areas to improve on and profit from.

An example that stood out today:

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $8.65
UTG+1: $13.50
MP1: $20.85
MP2: $7.55
MP3: $31.80
CO: $33.55
Button: $27.80
Crustyface: $43.15
BB: $9.75

Pre-flop: (9 players) Crustyface is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $0.75</font>, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Crustyface calls, BB calls.

Flop: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($3, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Crustyface bets $1.25</font>, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises all-in $6.8</font>, Crustyface folds, MP1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $1.8 returned to MP2.

Results:
Final pot: $14.25

Some would argue that i shouldn't call preflop here but i saw no harm because i had the intention of folding to anything but a real chance at making money. I won't carry on with 1 pair here alot of the time for example.

I semi bluff the draw out of the SB. I don't think that this is a bad move because its been a pretty tight table.

The last person pushes, this tells me he has something i cannot beat without hitting either backdoor two pair or trips, or the flush. I didn't call here because i felt that it would be costing me the other persons stack too, since he looks to have something good.

Now this is the only scenario today where i was tempted, these don't come up often, but should i always be folding here. My implied odds arn't that great.

Thanks,

CrustyFace

[SykoraG]

First thing, this all depends on player reads. If you know the player is tight and only raises with high PP(MP1), then you shouldn't be betting out the flop because you risk losing the right odds to draw out if he raises your bet all in or whatever etc.

Now if you had position this would be a different scenario (where in different scenarios with different villains, being aggro OOP might be +ev, or if you're last to act min raising your FD to get a free turn is +ev).

As played you're either going to have to push (to attempt to isolate) or fold. MP1s massive raise tells me he either has a set or high PP, so I doubt you'll be getting him to fold (meaing a push is bad). Your preflop call wasn't bad, suited connectors and it was only 3xbb. Good fold

[55555]

Care to elaborate on your preflop aggression learnings in a separate post or provide a link??

I am definitely too weak preflop and rarely cbet past flop

[Waingro]

When shorty pushes this tells you that he probably has a pair or possibly some crappy draw, giving you a solid 15 outs to a winner. But I don´t like MP1 in the hand so I´m probably folding anyways. In retrospect he is an uberdonk but we don´t know that. The semibluff is fine but plz bet $2.5, your bet is dying to get raised. Oh and fold pf, you do not have the odds to play fit or fold postflop and your postion sucks.

[Tjorriemorrie]

And I believe it could also be 14 outs in your example. If he had Ah8x, that's something you should be aware of. That's a good number of outs imo, but in your example the bet on flop was not that good but the fold was good (actually easy).

Drawing...well, you have to take implied odds for that imo. I won't however go AI on a draw, that's just my personnal tight style. Assuming MP1 minraised and MP2 folded, then I would call. Assuming MP1 folded and MP2 minraised, I would fold. Why? coz he's shortstacked and reduces your implied odds.

If MP1 minraised and MP2 called, then I'll call. If MP1 called and MP2 raised, I'll fold coz MP1 can reraise (although doubtful). I only prefer to draw if I'm the last one to make a move. Don't want to call and then the next guy goes AI and then I fold anyway.

I also prefer to only draw with an A/K for a flush and if I'm holding the top side (forgot term) of a straight.

[Supwithbates]

I call the push, you're getting almost 3:1 odds on a flushdraw after the flop... pretty easy call even if they both have a set

[elgatoesme]

[ QUOTE ]
When shorty pushes this tells you that he probably has a pair or possibly some crappy draw, giving you a solid 15 outs to a winner. But I don´t like MP1 in the hand so I´m probably folding anyways. In retrospect he is an uberdonk but we don´t know that. The semibluff is fine but plz bet $2.5, your bet is dying to get raised. Oh and fold pf, you do not have the odds to play fit or fold postflop and your postion sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely a bigger semibluff bet is needed on the flop. The bigger bet might also mean you will be calling the all in raise since your pot odds will be much better on the call.

Only make that preflop call if you think you are a lot better than your opponents, i.e. they will fold to a lead out on the flop unless they hit well. This would be fairly rare against 2 opponents.