25NL Huge pot with maniac [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Chris_ca

11-22-2006, 10:39 PM

BB is a total maniac 70/40/1.9 over ~60 hands
MP is 55/25 over 30

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($15.02)
CO ($24.30)
Button ($10.10)
SB ($22.40)
BB ($60.20)
Chris ($39.35)

Preflop: Chris is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
Chris raises to $1.1, MP raises to $1.95, 3 folds, BB calls $1.70, Chris raises to $8, MP folds, BB calls $6.05.

Flop: ($18.05) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Chris bets $15, BB calls $15.

Turn: ($48.05) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks

What Now? I have $16 left.
Comments on any other streets welcomed.
I played the queens very aggressively preflop based on my opponents statistics.

Longy

11-22-2006, 10:54 PM

Stick it in you may have the best hand and you only have to be good/outdraw 1 in 5 to make it break even. You must be better than that here.

Also donks like this will sometimes fold cos they are idiots.

55555

11-22-2006, 10:56 PM

i don't like the reraise preflop. Even though there's a fair chance you have the better hand there with his stats.

You define your hand too much. Now he has a fair idea where your at and you don't really know where he's at. He has to have you on AA-QQ or AK, so for him to call the flop he probably has to have KK AK or maybe even a set or flush draw (unless he's REALLY bad).

Kd is probably the worst card possible for you. i check turn and maybe call a small bet on river out of curiosity.

gir

11-22-2006, 10:59 PM

Pooooosh!

Bowlboy

11-22-2006, 11:05 PM

Given that BB's post flop aggression isnt very high I dont think he's moved ahead on the turn without betting. Id be willing to get it all in on the turn here as well. While this hand is playing out, you should be looking at some of BB's other stats as well such as how wtsd% and w$sd etc.

The way I look at this turn card is, I'm definitely not folding now that I have so many of my chips in. If I check behind I give BB a chance to catch an ace or make 2pair on the river. Pushing the turn gives you your best chance of
winning this hand.

Longy

11-22-2006, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like the reraise preflop. Even though there's a fair chance you have the better hand there with his stats.

You define your hand too much. Now he has a fair idea where your at and you don't really know where he's at. He has to have you on AA-QQ or AK, so for him to call the flop he probably has to have KK AK or maybe even a set or flush draw (unless he's REALLY bad).

Kd is probably the worst card possible for you. i check turn and maybe call a small bet on river out of curiosity.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is a Maniac 70/49, he doesn't think about what you have generally and probably doesn't have any of the hands you listed apart from ak.

Expect to see a lot of smaller pp's though some of them will have setted up.

55555

11-22-2006, 11:24 PM

Results?

limit refugee

11-22-2006, 11:53 PM

Preflop perfect...don't worry about defining your hand to him...he's a maniac, like Paulie in Rocky III, he don't sweat you.

Your calling the turn if he shoves right? So shove first so he don't get no freebies. If he lucked into the king so be it, but he prolly doesn't have a flush and a lone diamond or straight draw or ace must be charged to see the river.

DaDizz

11-23-2006, 12:32 AM

check turn, let him bluff. Who gives a [censored] if you give him a freebie...you might already be beat. Anyways, ripping this turn is a nonvalue suicide mission (only a better hand is calling...i would think anyways). Checkturn then call his bet.

kolotoure

11-23-2006, 12:36 AM

Villian will call with Ace of diamonds and any piece of the flop so pushing is best

Chris_ca

11-23-2006, 12:46 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($15.02)
CO ($24.30)
Button ($10.10)
SB ($22.40)
BB ($60.20)
Chris ($39.35)

Preflop: Chris is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
Chris raises to $1.1, MP raises to $1.95, 3 folds, BB calls $1.70, Chris raises to $8, MP folds, BB calls $6.05.

Flop: ($18.05) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Chris bets $15, BB calls $15.

Turn: ($48.05) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Chris bets 16.35 (All-In), BB calls $16.35.

River: ($80.75) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $80.75

Results in white below: 
BB has 6d Qd (flush, king high).
Chris has Qs Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: BB wins $80.75. 

Sick

bk1

11-23-2006, 01:39 AM

I think preflop bet was over bet.

There are 6 cards that can beat yours.

Also, because you bet so much and built the pot so big, you gave your opponent chance to stay in and draw out on you

bk1

11-23-2006, 01:40 AM

that sucks...

calling $8 with Q6...

Tjorriemorrie

11-23-2006, 01:55 AM

Q6...wtf?

My play may not be the best, but I never go AI against loose/maniacs. Too risky. I'm sure you understand why. I would check turn against maniac, then I'll know he has flush when he goes AI on river.

You played it fine imo if the opponent had different reads.

King Car

11-23-2006, 02:00 AM

With hero's stack and villain's tendancies, I think we have to push here.

After villain shows Q6, he gets added to my buddy list.

Chris_ca

11-23-2006, 07:26 PM

I wasn't giving the implied odds he needed. Sure he had the chance to draw out, but not profitably.
On the flop I was giving 49-15 or slightly better than 3-1 implied odds when he was 4-1 dog to make his hand on the turn.

Preflop I was 89% to win if you run out the board. So he roughly needed 9-1 implied odds to call my big raise. He wasn't getting anywhere near that.

55555

11-23-2006, 07:30 PM

I'm still surprised by the number of people who said push. Why gamble against a maniac/bad player when you can just wait for a better sopt.

Longy

11-23-2006, 07:44 PM

I still don't understand your arguement, he is bad player so we might well be ahead.

Cash game are pure question of getting +ev, this is not tournament. Are you seriously telling me that we are not ahead more than 1 in 4 times here and this is not taking into account any FE we have.

---
5,456 games 0.016 secs 341,000 games/sec

Board: 8c 7d 3d Kd
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 35.6213 % 35.30% 00.32% { QcQs }
Hand 2: 64.3787 % 64.06% 00.32% { 22+, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, Ad8d, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd, Kd9d, Kd8d, Kd7d, Kd6d, Kd5d, Kd4d, Kd3d, Kd2d, QdJd, QdTd, Qd9d, Qd8d, Qd7d, Qd6d, Qd5d, Qd4d, Qd3d, Qd2d, JdTd, Jd9d, Jd8d, Jd7d, Jd6d, Jd5d, Jd4d, Jd3d, Jd2d, Td9d, Td8d, Td7d, Td6d, Td5d, Td4d, Td3d, Td2d, 9d8d, 9d7d, 9d6d, 9d5d, 9d4d, 9d3d, 9d2d, 8d7d, 8d6d, 8d5d, 8d4d, 8d3d, 8d2d, 7d6d, 7d5d, 7d4d, 7d3d, 7d2d, 6d5d, 6d4d, 6d3d, 6d2d, 5d4d, 5d3d, 5d2d, 4d3d, 4d2d, 3d2d, AKo, A8o }

I think this is being generous every pair any 2 diamonds, a8o and ako

Chris_ca

11-23-2006, 07:49 PM

How is it a gamble?

He's a maniac, he'll play any two, he'll raise twice as many hands as you play (limp), and he'll do it from any position. He'll call to the river with A2 just hoping spiking a ace will be enough to win. You can't give up on this massive pot.

If you check behind and he moves in on the river, which by the way is very likely, this retard bluffed like crazy, you will have to call most of the time getting 4-1 (some particularly awful cards mightinduce a fold). So if the money is going in, at least do it now, you might still be best and you can't let a free card take this massive pot away (like A2).

Believe me, I wasn't happy about doing it, but there seems no other choice.

55555

11-23-2006, 07:59 PM

He asked for comments on all streets. The way it was played, i agree with you.

But my argument is that it didn't need to be played as fast(As per my first post).

Then you can still make decisions later in the hand. As the hand was played the decision is taken away. Against a bad player you want to make more decisions and out play him, not just throw your money in the pot and hope he doesn't draw out.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i try to avoid the marginal situations against the bad players.

bk1

11-23-2006, 08:28 PM

preflop betting is good.

but you just bet so much.

if you are gonna bet that much, you might as well move all in.

it is better if you just bet enough and feel like he draw out on you, then fold.

I don't know either way you are not gonna agree or try to learn from it, but only defend your play.

it is waste of time discussing it.

ben wb

11-23-2006, 10:11 PM

I think this is played well. Just unlucky this time.

Big Poppa Smurf

11-23-2006, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Q6...wtf?

My play may not be the best, but I never go AI against loose/maniacs. Too risky. I'm sure you understand why. I would check turn against maniac, then I'll know he has flush when he goes AI on river.

You played it fine imo if the opponent had different reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me summarize what you just said: i never go all-in against maniacs and loose players because i will have the best hand far too often and i hate making money. furthermore, when they bet into me, i will always assume they have the nuts even though i know they are maniacs so i will never call unless i have the nuts, unless the bet is really large and i don't want to get sucked out on because i know they will suck out on me

limit refugee

11-24-2006, 02:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i never go all-in against maniacs and loose players because i will have the best hand far too often and i hate making money. furthermore, when they bet into me, i will always assume they have the nuts even though i know they are maniacs so i will never call unless i have the nuts, unless the bet is really large and i don't want to get sucked out on because i know they will suck out on me

[/ QUOTE ]

I currently have an index card taped to my monitor that says "THINK BEFORE CALLING ALL-INS" (which has done wonders for me)...but I may have to replace it with this.

IceMuncher

11-24-2006, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q6...wtf?

My play may not be the best, but I never go AI against loose/maniacs. Too risky. I'm sure you understand why. I would check turn against maniac, then I'll know he has flush when he goes AI on river.

You played it fine imo if the opponent had different reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me summarize what you just said: i never go all-in against maniacs and loose players because i will have the best hand far too often and i hate making money. furthermore, when they bet into me, i will always assume they have the nuts even though i know they are maniacs so i will never call unless i have the nuts, unless the bet is really large and i don't want to get sucked out on because i know they will suck out on me

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to sound gay or anything, but I'd love to have sex with you.

deehi

11-24-2006, 09:59 AM

From my looking at the hand, Chris, I would have played the hand in similar fashion, in that, I would reraise to a smaller amount,maybe $5. On the flop, with the two to a flush on the board,I like to either:

1) offer a pot sized bet to give my opponents bad odds to calling or

2)with the read of your opponent being a flat out maniac, I would shove. Maniacs at these levels tend to horrible. They will call with terrible hands. Suited cards,connectors or just about anything else. This individual probably knows that he is way behind pf and knows if he can hit a flush, he'll break you. With that being said, and the mindset of this type of player, I SHOVE! Why is that, i tend to like a shove on the TURN to put ALL of the pressure on my opponent. May them have to make the tough decisions. When,he checked, i put it all in. The odds of him hitting the card he needs is small. In this instance, he just suxout and scooped a huge pot. nothing you can do about that. gg

ValarMorghulis

11-24-2006, 10:21 AM

Hand was played fine. Bad player sucked out on you. This happens; it's part of poker. Don't be results orientated. (e.g. Next time you play the hand the same, he'll get stacked with Qh8h, or the diamond won't hit, or he'll bluff off all his chips.) Ignore the bad advice from the posters who think you pushed too hard.