I creid during a movie today...

[MaxWeiss]

It was the first time I've cried at a movie in eight years. I downloaded it because it is not playing anywhere that I can find, though I have pre-ordered the DVD from Amazon.

The movie was Jesus Camp.

I have over the past year been more and more alarmed and felt a growing need to be more active in everything from my liberal views to my atheistic views. (Though I'm sure many young people feel the need to be proactive as they grow.)

I am 22 and I have just witnessed the intellectual rape of multiple children up close and more personal than ever before. I am having trouble coping with having seen it at the moment. I searched for "Jesus Camp" and came upon a thread about a father who's 10 year old daughter cries for him every night because he is an atheist and she believes in her heart of hearts he is going to suffer for all eternity.

This is worse than physical rape. This is something that takes hold of a person their entire lives. This is disturbing and wrong. It is not just organized religion. Individual faith in "god" is the seed from which organized religion grows.

I will have nightmares tonight of that eight year old girl raising her hands as high as she can reach and having tears stream down her face as she begs for forgiveness of sins that she doesn't even understand.

How does one cope? What can I do?? Is there a way to end this poison of the mind???

[CaseS87]

its funny that ted haggard is in that movie.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
How does one cope? What can I do?? Is there a way to end this poison of the mind???

[/ QUOTE ]

Meth and sodomy, apparently.

[revots33]

Sadly most people are indoctrinated into religion as children when they have no choice. In reality most of our children are being indoctrinated into a cult.

I want to see this movie, but even the few clips I've seen have made me so angry I can only imagine the effect the entire movie will have.

[CrazyIrishman]

I want to see this movie but it's definitely not coming anywhere near where I am living. I watched the trailers and it sent shivers down my spine...the kids aren't even speaking from themselves, but rather as a mouthpiece of those who taught them.

[keith123]

did you cry because that kid's dad was going to hell? it is just a movie.

[moneyfaucet]

Show up to camp, let your Tek-9 spray, and send them all to heaven. They've renounced this world for the next, you're doing them a service sending the fkers on their way.
LOL JUST JOKING I LUV JESUS I LUV AMERICA I LUV BUSH

I was driving home early sunday morning through bakersfield
Listening to gospel music on the colored radio station
And the preacher said, you know you always have the
Lord by your side

And I was so pleased to be informed of this that I ran
Twenty red lights in his honor
Thank you jesus, thank you lord
-Rolling Stones, Faraway Eyes

[surftheiop]

Is this is the movie about militant fundamentalists?

As a Christian and follower of Jesus it makes me want to cry as well.

[MaxWeiss]

Individual faith in God in whatever form other than the Dawkins "Einsteinian" sense (a sense of awe at nature) is the seed from which organized religion grows.

Faith is a virus of the mind.

I appreciate the comment though, and as much as I don't want to be mean--it has to be said. I'm sure you are a good person and will only ever interpret God's will in a good and decent way, but that doesn't change the fact that belief in the first place is where all this starts.

[Nielsio]

college kid,

check this out and see if it helps you understand theistic trauma better:

http://www.freedomainradio.com/Traffic_Jams/how_to_control_a_human_soul.mp3
http://www.freedomainradio.com/Traffic_Jams/culture.mp3

[MaxWeiss]

You (or somebody else maybe) posted those in response to something else a few months ago and I have already listened to them, and check freedomainradio every now and then. I really liked the discussion on the invisible food and the only possible conclusions to draw from what is happening around you. Very good example. Thanks for linking them again though.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
You (or somebody else maybe) posted those in response to something else a few months ago and I have already listened to them, and check freedomainradio every now and then. I really liked the discussion on the invisible food and the only possible conclusions to draw from what is happening around you. Very good example. Thanks for linking them again though.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ok, great.

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
How does one cope? What can I do?? Is there a way to end this poison of the mind???

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the same hopeless feeling when reminded of the toxic indoctrination found in most every American college. It's hard to imagine a more ideologically unbalanced presentation of most every political and social issue and to the most impressionable minds. Sad indeed.

[hmkpoker]

You may enjoy this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=6114230&page=

[surftheiop]

College Kid- you dont need to try to act politicaly correct here.

IF Faith is a virus of the mind

you think im an idiotic, irrational, amoral (if you believe in morality), corrupter of society, no reason to try to hide it.

[revots33]

Haven't seen the movie yet (have seen a few clips), but when you get right down to it, what really is the difference between what is being done to these kids, and what is done to every kid being dragged to church by their parents each Sunday?

Most adults believe because they were indoctrinated as children. When they grow up they think that, as an intelligent adult, they must be smart enough to know if they were duped as a child or not. So they decide what they were indoctrinated into must be "real".

The same goes for Muslims, Jews, or any other faith. Breaking free from childhood brainwashing is very difficult and most adults never do it. So I do agree that faith is the problem. Because faith leads people to brainwash their own children, and so the cycle continues.

[Gonso]

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I get the same hopeless feeling when reminded of the toxic indoctrination found in most every American college. It's hard to imagine a more ideologically unbalanced presentation of most every political and social issue and a "more to the most impressionable minds. Sad indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a veiled attack on U.S. colleges, but that's okay. Colleges here do tend to be very liberal compared to the general population. However, if you can't imagine a "more ideologically unbalanced presentation" of issues, you don't have much imagination. Any state run by a communist or religious regime would be an easy place to start.

[HeavilyArmed]

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[ QUOTE ]
I get the same hopeless feeling when reminded of the toxic indoctrination found in most every American college. It's hard to imagine a more ideologically unbalanced presentation of most every political and social issue and a "more to the most impressionable minds. Sad indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a veiled attack on U.S. colleges, but that's okay. Colleges here do tend to be very liberal compared to the general population. However, if you can't imagine a "more ideologically unbalanced presentation" of issues, you don't have much imagination. Any state run by a communist or religious regime would be an easy place to start.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken.

How about this. It's hard to imagine a more ideologically unbalanced presentation of most every political and social issue in America and passed off as neutral, New York Times and CBS excepted.

[MaxWeiss]

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you think im an idiotic, irrational, amoral (if you believe in morality), corrupter of society, no reason to try to hide it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think faith is a virus of the mind. And I won't try to hide that. As I said in my previous post, I am sure you are a good and decent person and will only ever interpret religious stuff in a good and decent way. The thing is though that that's not religion, that's you being a good person.

Somebody else can murder lots and lots of people and come up with a whole bunch more religious reasons why that's a good thing or even just acceptable. And it's not. Even if coupled with the good things, this is inexcusable. And this is just one of many things which people can believe.

One of my best friends is very religious--no, he has lots of personal faith I should say--he would be very upset if I called him religious, as he uses that word to mean organized religion. Either way, he's a bible thumper. He is an awesome friend and a really good guy and I know he will only ever use his faith for good things, so I never mean to say bad things about him. He just believes something stupid.

A stupid thing which does more bad than good.

Again, I don't mean to insult you personally. I don't think you're an idiot or immoral. I do think in this one area you are irrational, and I do think that in a way you would be corrupting society for the worse if you try and pass your faith on.

[HeavilyArmed]

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Somebody else can murder lots and lots of people and come up with a whole bunch more religious reasons why that's a good thing or even just acceptable. And it's not. Even if coupled with the good things, this is inexcusable. And this is just one of many things which people can believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please detail the religious reasons for:

1. Stalin's murderous multiple decades with tens of millions dead.

2. Mao and friends, as above.

3. Pol Pot, not so long and not quite so many millions dead.

This is by no means any excuse for sectarian murder but the balance over the last century is fairly well skewed.

[madnak]

The balance is between those who killed because of religion and those who killed because of atheism. An atheist who kills for power doesn't fit in. Neither does a religious person who kills for wealth.

Obviously it can be argued that religious people who kill don't do so because of their religion, and that atheists who kill do so because they feel atheism removes any sense of moral obligation. So of course this will never be a pat argument.

But it can certainly be said that nobody has claimed to kill in the name of atheism, while plenty have claimed to kill in the name of theism. It can also be said that the killers you're talking about - who weren't actually Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao, but their followers - were motivated by social structures, by codes of belief and organization, that had striking similarities with religion.

Personally I don't much care. I think organized, dogmatic social movements in general lead to bad things, and so I'm safe from any kind of theistic refutation. The brainwashing, the indoctrination, the false idealism - these were as present in the atheist villains as in the theist villains. Thus, whether or not religion has actually caused any strife per se, religion has certainly been used as a tool by those who cause strife. (And a very effective one, at that.)

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
The balance is between those who killed because of religion and those who killed because of atheism. An atheist who kills for power doesn't fit in. Neither does a religious person who kills for wealth.

Obviously it can be argued that religious people who kill don't do so because of their religion, and that atheists who kill do so because they feel atheism removes any sense of moral obligation. So of course this will never be a pat argument.

But it can certainly be said that nobody has claimed to kill in the name of atheism, while plenty have claimed to kill in the name of theism. It can also be said that the killers you're talking about - who weren't actually Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao, but their followers - were motivated by social structures, by codes of belief and organization, that had striking similarities with religion.

Personally I don't much care. I think organized, dogmatic social movements in general lead to bad things, and so I'm safe from any kind of theistic refutation. The brainwashing, the indoctrination, the false idealism - these were as present in the atheist villains as in the theist villains. Thus, whether or not religion has actually caused any strife per se, religion has certainly been used as a tool by those who cause strife. (And a very effective one, at that.)

[/ QUOTE ]

And actively promoting religion provides an amazingly fertile ground for that type of misuse. Unfortunately, religion is probably just as much a result as it is a cause of this susceptibility.

[HeavilyArmed]

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Obviously it can be argued that religious people who kill don't do so because of their religion...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say that you're overlooking that religion of 'peace', Islam.

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[madnak]

Did you read my whole post?

[thylacine]

HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to argue that Hitler was sectarian and harder still to argue he was Christian.

Anti-Semitism is a non-denominational disorder but Islam is the current league leader.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to argue that Hitler was sectarian and harder still to argue he was Christian.

Anti-Semitism is a non-denominational disorder but Islam is the current league leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think anti-Semitism is rooted in the Bible?

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to argue that Hitler was sectarian and harder still to argue he was Christian.

Anti-Semitism is a non-denominational disorder but Islam is the current league leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think anti-Semitism is rooted in the Bible?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are quite a few Jews that get pretty good press in the Bible. In the Koran, not so much.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to argue that Hitler was sectarian and harder still to argue he was Christian.

Anti-Semitism is a non-denominational disorder but Islam is the current league leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think anti-Semitism is rooted in the Bible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick clarification - when people say "Bible" they're talking about the old testament and the Jesus part, but not the lizard book, right? Or, is it limited to the old testament?

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
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HeavilyArmed said:[ QUOTE ]

Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easy. The Holocaust. Obviously Anti-Semitism (including Hitler's) originated in Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to argue that Hitler was sectarian and harder still to argue he was Christian.

Anti-Semitism is a non-denominational disorder but Islam is the current league leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont think anti-Semitism is rooted in the Bible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick clarification - when people say "Bible" they're talking about the old testament and the Jesus part, but not the lizard book, right? Or, is it limited to the old testament?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was meaning all of it, since its generally Abrahamic cultures that foster anti-Semitism. Muslims hate Jews for a lot of the same reasons Christians do (although not ALL the same reasons).

[revots33]

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Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1465326.stm
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1125/

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1465326.stm
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1125/

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reasonably sure that the Catholic position on anal sex is none too favorable. What's your point? I'm guessing it's simple anti-Catholic hate.

Wanna save some Africans from AIDS? Get them to stop buggering one another.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1465326.stm
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1125/

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reasonably sure that the Catholic position on anal sex is none too favorable. What's your point? I'm guessing it's simple anti-Catholic hate.

Wanna save some Africans from AIDS? Get them to stop buggering one another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummmm....getting humans to stop having sex is probably not a reasonable goal. Getting them to do so in a way that doesnt result in millions of deaths is at least possible. Is that really your position? If they dont want AIDS stop having sex?

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1465326.stm
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1125/

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reasonably sure that the Catholic position on anal sex is none too favorable. What's your point? I'm guessing it's simple anti-Catholic hate.

Wanna save some Africans from AIDS? Get them to stop buggering one another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummmm....getting humans to stop having sex is probably not a reasonable goal. Getting them to do so in a way that doesnt result in millions of deaths is at least possible. Is that really your position? If they dont want AIDS stop having sex?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's always nice to hear from the reading impaired. Stop by anytime.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since this thread was started as specifically an anti-Christian rant I'd be interested in the Christian mass murder commited this past century. What ya got?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://www.cathnews.com/news/310/53.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1465326.stm
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1125/

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reasonably sure that the Catholic position on anal sex is none too favorable. What's your point? I'm guessing it's simple anti-Catholic hate.

Wanna save some Africans from AIDS? Get them to stop buggering one another.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummmm....getting humans to stop having sex is probably not a reasonable goal. Getting them to do so in a way that doesnt result in millions of deaths is at least possible. Is that really your position? If they dont want AIDS stop having sex?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's always nice to hear from the reading impaired. Stop by anytime.

[/ QUOTE ]
What of the bolded part did I misread?