tough turn spot (?) with 57s, 50 fr

[Big Poppa Smurf]

pfr was unknown, villain on the turn was like 18.5/5/2 over 100 hands. no real reads as i have no notes on him, this means i haven't seen him do anything dumb yet.

i tried to make some weird blocking bet on the turn but that is dumb since i am not folding if he shoves. so in retrospect the best play here is to open shove the turn right? fwiw i thought i was still drawing live on the turn

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $31.25
UTG+1: $63.65
MP1: $119.65
MP2: $40.20
Hero: $101.35
CO: $49.75
Button: $65.55
SB: $44.90
BB: $124.10

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $1.5</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($6.25, 5 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($33.25, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $14...I should just open shove here right?

[AliasMrJones]

Without a cold caller, I fold preflop. On the flop, I take the nice pot/implied odds and smooth call. Doesn't MP1 act before you on the turn? If he checked, I'd check behind. I don't understand why you're trying to invest so much money on a draw when you don't have to. If villain is going to let you draw profitably, why try to correct his mistake?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

we are 200bb deep, i'm not folding a playable hand here preflop for a 3x raise ever.

also i have a huge draw and the only hand i am really behind to there that i need to worry about 3betting me is kk. my raise builds the pot, might fold out hands that beat me when i don't improve, and lets me take a free card if i want to. i have a huge draw and position, i am taking control of the hand here and using position, stack sizes, and agression to my advantage.

any comments on the turn once we get there?

[55555]

I agree with Alias. fold preflop.

On the turn the CO is still in the pot, there's a good chance he could be drawing to a higher flush. Also board has paired.

I check fold turn.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

i can't believe you guys are going to fold this hand 200bb deep for a 3x raise against what is most likely a random donk. to me, this is like folding a pair here which no one should ever be doing

as for the turn, i'm not concerned with the board pairing since this villain would have re-raised the turn with a set, of this i am almost positive. so won't open shoving the turn possibly get him to lay down higher draws/kings?

[AliasMrJones]

Sorry, missed the stacks...as for the rest of the hand, I guess one man's "taking control of the pot" is another man's "spewing chips." You have a nice draw, but I wouldn't call it huge.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

9 flush outs plus 5 two pair outs = 14 outs = a favorite over almost all of pfr's range, with fold equity and position on the flop

[elgatoesme]

Seems like CO is showing a lot of strenght with flop call, bet and raise and 2 to act behind and he calls. I don't know the players or the table but I would be thinking strong made hand like trips.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like CO is showing a lot of strenght with flop call, bet and raise and 2 to act behind and he calls. I don't know the players or the table but I would be thinking strong made hand like trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was fairly positive he would 3-bet ai here with a set; also keep in mind a set of 5's is very unlikely given my hand, so this is basically putting him on a set of 3's

i think, if i had to give the range i was putting him on, was sets (mostly 3's, rarely 5's or k's) which i think are unlikely; higher flush draws, very unlikely straight draws, higher combo draws, and something like ak/kq

[Hail Eris]

That turn card sucks worse than you seem to realize, since it kills all of your 7s. I have nothing against c/f this turn to a large bet. Dunno what he's gonna fold to a shove after cold-calling your flop raise.

And I call PF even with 100BB stacks.

[elgatoesme]

5c 3c? That would explain his action if he liked to play suited connectors in position with several preflop calls? I know it doesn't pay to be paranoid. You had the table read. But that is a fishy play even by .02bb standards, I am just a newbie but I sure wouldn't make that call with AK unless I really thought MP1 was bluffing and Hero was trying to isolate him.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
That turn card sucks worse than you seem to realize, since it kills all of your 7s.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am well aware of this, but i still have 11 outs here. the big problem is getting to the turn here OOP and not hitting, and now i'm stuck with villain having a psb left and position

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Dunno what he's gonna fold to a shove after cold-calling your flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

hopefully higher flush draws, top pair hands he got out of line with on the flop, straight draws(although i would want him to call here, now he can't bluff/outplay me)