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Montezuma21
11-21-2006, 12:29 PM
Villain sat down a few hands ago. I saw him bet out a set from the blinds on a relatively drawless board a few hands ago so he clearly knows how to play monsters fast (which the vast majority of donks won't do).

My problem is really on the turn, though if you don't think PF call is +EV please say so. Given my flop raise, villain has to put me on something fairly strong. What kind of range can i put villain on on the turn? The nuts, obviously, but would a set play it this way? (maybe), would AJ or AT(less likely).

Literally the only hand i can see myself beating at this point is AQ or AK, and i'm not entirely sure villain would play them like this, although i suppose it's definitely possible. I don't think a flush draw would play it this way.

As far as i can see, i beat only a very small part of villain's range on the turn, and calling a turn bet commits me to calling a river bet, which i really don't want to do. So, let it go, call down? so, what do i do and why?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $17.35
hero: $25.75
CO: $28.70
Button: $17.30
SB: $23.95
BB: $18.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $0.5</font>, hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $0.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero raises to $3.5</font>, SB calls, 2 folds.

Turn: A/images/graemlins/club.gif ($9.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $5</font>, hero?


thanks.

homeslice
11-21-2006, 12:42 PM
I fold this PF.

As played, the villian c/c a raise OOP on the flop and leads the turn? hmmm. His play is odd. With your prior read and the flush draw out there I don't think he has a set. I think you may be ahead here and I'm actually leaning towards pushing the turn.

BombayBadboy
11-21-2006, 12:44 PM
Preflop is a fold. You don't want to play this crap against a raise. Even suited I might fold here, depending on the table ofcourse.

Flop is good. It wouldnt hurt to make it a little more though.

Since you ahve position, villain can also put you on a draw. You might be trying to get a free one on the turn if you miss.

I have to admit his turnbet surprises me quite a bit. It seems a bad bet anyways, even if he is holding the nuts.

I'd probably call and fold to any significant river aggression. Hands that have you beat are going nowhere, and you fold out the hands that you beat if you raise.

Panthro
11-21-2006, 12:47 PM
I know the PF raise was only a minraise, but treat it as a real raise until proven otherwise. It's common among donks to use the minraise PF with big hands to encourage action.

Given reads, I just call the turn. I'm always suspicious when a donk leads into me again after I've raised on the previous street.

Jouster777
11-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Fold preflop

Very strange turn bet and unless you have some reason to think he is making a play I would think that turn improved him. The only hand that makes sense to me (edit: that hasn't been mentioned already - AJ and AT) is KQ and now he wants to protect against the FD.

Another hand you are ahead of is the NFD that hit that ace. But in that case I can't see him making this bet as the FD is great for him.

Can't put him exactly on one hand so a call or a fold here is ok but I would probably fold. If I call I wouldn't put in more $ on the river if I don't boat up. I don't like a push here.

Bonesy
11-21-2006, 03:00 PM
Given your read of this guy, I fold to the turn bet. KQ and AJ just got there. Some funky set play is possible although I doubt it. I think the ace helped him in some way. I haven't gone through my PT stats yet but I think two pair hands are a leak for me. You may be ahead this hand but I think you are very likely to face a river bet also and you only have 4 outs to improve.

RollTide77
11-21-2006, 03:29 PM
I probably would have folded pre-flop as well. Unless you keep seeing him do it with nothing. Some guys will raise PF with a good pair to fish out the higher pairs and see the flop. He's probably got nothing but at that point can you take a chance?

I too would have folded on the turn at the least. He's probably trying to scare you with the A but he still could have KJ, AJ or maybe he just locked it with a set and is trying to see how strong you are. Given the board, the PF raise on his part is wierd to me on any hand other than a pocket pair.

wslee00
11-21-2006, 03:51 PM
weak tighties - all of you!