was i donking it up? line check

[tehDiceman]

been at the table for about an hour, all showdowns have been junk. was upset that i had that many callers, but the cards on the board didnt scream at me so i decided to stay in.

i was planning on betting 50 cents on the flop if it was checked to me, it wasnt, then was minraised so i just called. wasnt scared of the minraise due to the hands they have been showing down. didnt think the flush on the river was likely since the river bet was still very small, didnt feel that a raise was in order though as there were still plenty of hands that beat me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP3 ($6.93)
CO ($3.11)
Hero ($2.84)
SB ($1.09)
BB ($4.81)
UTG ($4.29)
UTG+1 ($1.19)
MP1 ($5.49)
MP2 ($0.91)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $0.02, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.02, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.15</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $0.13, UTG+1 calls $0.13, MP2 folds, CO calls $0.13.

Flop: ($0.65) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $0.08</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $0.16</font>, Hero calls $0.16, UTG calls $0.16, UTG+1 calls $0.08.

Turn: ($1.29) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $0.28</font>, CO calls $0.28, Hero calls $0.28, UTG folds.

River: ($2.13) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $0.3</font>, Hero calls $0.30, UTG+1 calls $0.30.

Final Pot: $3.03

[Supwithbates]

I raise flop because one of them is on the club draw.
at .01/.02 I go broke here because you'll even be stacking people that won't laydown 88 or a6 or ridiculous cards like those

[kabouter]

preflop: Raise more make it at least 0.20 at this level
Flop: Make a potsized reraise, or just fold /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Turn: again reraise or fold
River: with the big chance of a flush the call seems fine to me, it's only 30 cents to win $3 so that seems ok to me. UTG seemed to be chasing a flush, and CO might have a pair, although I think he got trips because of the mini reraise on the flop.

[akkahai]

*grunch*

If you are regularly getting 3 callers with a 0.15 raise, why not just raise more? The more you get in preflop with KK the better. Find a sweet spot where you are still getting calls but not so that the whole table calls.

I think calling there on the flop is the worst thing you can do. You need to fold or raise. I'd raise to like $1 after that minraise and if they raise you after that, push. You might be dead to 2 pair, set or straight but I think it's still profitable.

[tehDiceman]

im not normally getting very many callers, especially with a 15 cent raise. i think their problem here was they thought i was trying to steal all the dead monies.

im not sure that they would have called a reraise on the flop either. the table was very strange indeed. people were folding hands on the river to 2 cent bets into a 2 dollar pot but would call 40 cents preflop or a dollar on the flop with nothing cards.

i was ready to get off that table for sure. it seems that that table would be a dream for a tag'r but i hated it. it was so hard to judge what they had because of the erratic gameplay.

[Sir Winalot]

Preflop is fine, definetly raise the flop. I'd make it 1.2 to go. As played, push turn.

[tehDiceman]

sounds like i should have went for it. anyone care to hear the results?

[Tjorriemorrie]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine, definetly raise the flop. I'd make it 1.2 to go. As played, push turn.

[/ QUOTE ]+1

[CaptVimes]

Grunch

I don't know. I don't like the way this was played. Preflop I think your ok. The way it played out it looks like UTG+1 had a draw on the flop and was blocking and then the J on the turn hit his hand. CO is either playing a set really weirdly or has an over pair like 77-99 and bet the river because UTG checked. Its hard to put either of these people on a hand becuase you didn't put any real pressure on them. I Think I would have repopped it on the flop, this does not mean a push. If one of them comes back over the top or calls I would hesitate to put any more money into the pot, but you might get a free turn card to see the river. I'm not worried about a flush here either and I think the only thing that beats you is a set or two pair, maybe JQ, but their hands are not really defined. The only time I might do this is if I thought both players were FoS. People play hands so weirdly at this level(I'm playing here too), I think you have to always be aggressive. Its the only way you can find out where your at.

[CaptVimes]

[ QUOTE ]
sounds like i should have went for it. anyone care to hear the results?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah

[wingchunflush]

make a pot sized raise on the flop, alot of stupid hands will pay you off here I think.

Results?

[EscapePlan9]

[ QUOTE ]
...was minraised so i just called. wasnt scared of the minraise due to the hands they have been showing down.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're not scared of the min-raise, why aren't you re-raising on this coordinated flop?

[tehDiceman]

here it is. even though i won, this is exactly why i was scared. they are calling with junk anything hands and could hit hard and i wouldnt even know it because of their donk bets. yea i could raise, but then im out a dollar just for feeling out a hand, i tend to not get many callers because of my table image, especially if i sit there for 2 hours. takes forever to make back my feeler bets and since i was going to quit for the day after that orbit, i wasnt feeling real good about throwing a ton of money at this pot in case i didnt make it. call it results oriented, but i didnt want to end up down for the day because i went busto with my kings on a hand that someone refused to fold and hit the set on the river when i was just getting ready to get up. ok ok, im weak. i know it. :-(

Final Pot: $3.03

Results below:
UTG+1 has Jc Tc (one pair, jacks).
CO has 5h 5d (one pair, fives).
Hero has Kc Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $3.03.

[CaptVimes]

I actually think this is more of a value bet because this hand is crushing most hands especially on the flop. If you want to check through the turn that would be ok to keep the pot reasonable. Its the fact that they call with anything which gives you the opportunity to make money. Also, you need to protect your hand because with the drawy flop you want them to pay too much to see another card. Don't get weak tight like me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[tehDiceman]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually think this is more of a value bet because this hand is crushing most hands especially on the flop. If you want to check through the turn that would be ok to keep the pot reasonable. Its the fact that they call with anything which gives you the opportunity to make money. Also, you need to protect your hand because with the drawy flop you want them to pay too much to see another card. Don't get weak tight like me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


that is very hard for me to do after i've been sitting at a dried up table for 2 hours. it seems like i post blinds and fold anything decent i get to aggression postflop. this hand was like a breaking point for me, unless it was obvious i was beat, i was calling down.

i win, post up for the long drawn out session, stand up and run away flailing my arms. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

weak/tight is def a leak for me the longer i sit at tables. this past week has been very bad, get down on a hand near the beginning of the session, spend the rest of the time playing hands i get and just breaking my even point from the first big loss, finally get fed up and just call down after a few more hours of nothing and either lose a bunch or make it back to buyin and quit.

[Archon_Wing]

IMO, I think you are starting to tilt. I recommend some time off poker. Tilt is not necessarily going to 10/20 and throwing away buyins to people. If you're too concerned with being down , it's going to cause you to play suboptimaly. It does seem like you are running bad, and it can be frustrating. It's a good idea to step aside for a bit so you can play your best.

And plenty of folks calling you with KK is actualy desirable. It's just that you have to charge them the right amount for it to be a mistake. ;p

[tehDiceman]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, I think you are starting to tilt. I recommend some time off poker. Tilt is not necessarily going to 10/20 and throwing away buyins to people. If you're too concerned with being down , it's going to cause you to play suboptimaly. It does seem like you are running bad, and it can be frustrating. It's a good idea to step aside for a bit so you can play your best.

And plenty of folks calling you with KK is actualy desirable. It's just that you have to charge them the right amount for it to be a mistake. ;p

[/ QUOTE ]

im not doing bad though, just the past few days have been brutally slow for me and then i break even at the end. should i post a graph for the month, it actually looks decent. im up 300 some odd PTBB right now, up from -2XX earlier this month. im like 12BB/100 right now over 2600 hands.

quite a bit more down if you take into account every other limit i played when i had no clue what i was doing, but much closer to breaking even now than i was this time two weeks ago.

i've played about 10k hands and am around -2BB/100 right now.(my donkey days are brutalizing my stats.) i was down like 1200PTBB or something, now im winning my way back up. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

i've also slowed down my playing, i was playing like 4-6 hours a day, sometimes two tables at once, this was when i didnt really know what i was doing and my bankroll suffered because of it. i was cashing into 50NL with a $30 bankroll, bought in shortstacked(like 8-15 bucks) and played really bad poker, i mean really really bad poker.

i just cant play that much anymore because i tend to get bored at 5NL single tabling when i play "properly". back when i was donking it up i was having a blast minus the losing because i was in tons of hands, the typical drop 50 bucks every few weeks casual player that had no clue how to win, was just relying on luck.

i played over 1600 hands of .50/1.00 limit with a bankroll of sub $40. i had no clue there was a right and wrong way to play poker. bankroll management was a big thing with me once i learned about it. now that i've gotten my bet sizing semi proper, i play fairly taggylag, pay attention to position, dont chase very many hands, read other's hands and call down bluffers because of it.

btw, thank you 2plus2!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Archon_Wing]

Well, sometimes you might not notice it. It can be quite subtle in the form of small leaks. ;p And results can be decieving. You can probably do better. ;p

But as long as you improve and spot mistakes you should be good. I don't know, sometimes poker can be pretty frustrating. ;o

[tehDiceman]

im sure i could do better, i know i was religiously cbetting unknown calling stations on a missed flop, after two or three cbets that got called by the same few people, i still hadnt noticed. i lost a ton of money that day, i was able to win most of it back once i quit that session and moved tables later that day, but if i hadnt lost money in the first place, i would be up a ton more right now.

there are a few smaller dips after the big jump but that was from bad beats or villians that really had a nice hand.

we'll see how the rest of the month turns out. im hoping to play a ton more hands in the last 8 days of the month to come out strong, although variance could kick me in the face and i could lose a ton, lets hope not since i dont really have a ton to lose.

[elgatoesme]

Sure.
Probably would raise more preflop but not on some tight tables.
I would have raised more on flop.