frustrated....

[wingchunflush]

I am new to the forums and the multitabling. I was an ok player before nothing special. I have been sitting with another 2+2er and sweating him. It feels like I am playing ok, but I am losing my ass here. Started at .01/.02 and did well I quickly moved to .02/.05 and cant maintain wins on tables. I am playing the same I think, should I just chalk it up to variance? I am currently down 6 buy ins over 2700 hands, which isnt much but still seems like I should be doing a little better. Ideas?? suggestions?

[Al_Money]

Could just be variance but it sounds like you have some big leaks as well. How many tables are you playing? If it's more than 3 or 4, I suggest cutting back on tables and figuring out what bad habits you have developed. Also, I suggest participating in the session reviews that we have once in a while.

Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7914318&an=0&page=2#Post 7914318)to most recent session review.

[kaz2107]

2.7k hands is nuttin. keep workin on ur game, playin ur best, and play 10k more and see where u r. untill then just keep lookin to get better

[CaptVimes]

Post hands that are frustrating you. Stop multi-tabling. Take a break. I know when I have a bad session or run bad for a few days I start pressing and want to play a lot to try to make up for the losses. Basically I'm tilting. What I have found, that is most effective though is to stop playing and read the forums or a poker book or just do something else. Also, 2700 hands is not that many just be patient and make sure your playing your best.

Hope this helps, /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[wingchunflush]

Thanks, I am really trying to make this work so I can try to do this full time. I am currently trying to play 4 tables, alot of the times its just 3 tables.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
I am new to the forums and the multitabling. I was an ok player before nothing special. I have been sitting with another 2+2er and sweating him. It feels like I am playing ok, but I am losing my ass here. Started at .01/.02 and did well I quickly moved to .02/.05 and cant maintain wins on tables. I am playing the same I think, should I just chalk it up to variance? I am currently down 6 buy ins over 2700 hands, which isnt much but still seems like I should be doing a little better. Ideas?? suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the most recent advice that has been the most helpful for me.

1) Play small pots when you have top pair without reads. this helps to limit your losses when runnign bad and grind out some wins when your hands are holding up. This may even mean folding top pair if you are getting too much pressure. Check some turns in position for pot control. Make sure you sometimes have a hand when you do this so that people don't just start betting every river into you becasue it is obvious you missed when you check the turn.

2) Get it all in with better two pair or better. This is where you make your big $$$.

3) Dont be afraid to raise when you are heads up with a 2pr or better hand. Most likely if you are going to stack someone you do not need to worry about pushing them out. When you do slowplay you will either not build a pot or give free cards that end up beating your hand. You need to build a pot to get all your money in on the turn or river.

Greg

[deaders]

When you are just starting dont try and play too many tables. Stick to one until you have the foundations worked out, or if that is just too boring play two at once. If you're new then poker should still be exciting enough that one table is good enough to hold your attention. Pay attention to everything happening on that table, watch every hand carefully and observe the betting patterns of your opponents and the hands they are showing down - developing hand reading is key, so when you arent in a hand yourself try and put others on hands and hand ranges. Dont overdo the multitabling until you are confident that you can win playing just one table at a time.

[tehDiceman]

i typically start with one table, if the action is really slow, seems like every freaking time i sit down to play, i open a second. right after that, the action picks up so that i have trouble keeping up and playing my best. ARGH.

if i have a bad session, i'll take a break, few hours or something to try and take my mind off of the crap. play again, do better and thinking clearly. normally i'll come ahead for the day, or if the beats were real bad, breakeven or close to it.

[wingchunflush]

The 4 is probably to much, but I seem to do ok with 3. If I play 2 then I start reading forums and not paying as close attention. Like I am doing now. I am playing 2 .01.02 and am up 2 buy ins. I just dont see how there can be so much difference between $2nl and $5nl. Anyone else have this problem?

[Grunch]

1) Sweat someone else.
2) Don't focus on winrate. Instead, focus on making optimal decisions -- both strategic and bankroll decisions.
3) Post more often. Contribute your advice and accept (sometimes harsh) criticism.
4) Participate in the session review.
5) Don't play with the goal of going pro. Instead, play with the goal of improving as a player with every hand you play.
6) Don't focus on my spelling.

[wingchunflush]

session review? I am trying to post some hands a lot of them dont get any advice. I am not sure if they just seem standard or what. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
session review? I am trying to post some hands a lot of them dont get any advice. I am not sure if they just seem standard or what. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
look to find other peoples hands to start with and read the original and dont look at every ones advice and post ur advice . then see if ur advice matches up with the consesnus of the reg posters.

aslo by doing this alot of posters will return the favor and post in ur threads more oftn

[wingchunflush]

I am trying to reply to hands the way I would play it and if that is the "right" way to play it. I am doing a fair amount of replying I think. I just joined the forum like 3 weeks ago.

[Chaos_ult]

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Make sure to read all the sticky FAQ posts at the top of the page. Lots of links to great threads.

Definitely play fewer tables. Try to focus on playing optimally. Really think hard about each and every decision.

There is no substitute for experience, however.

Goodluck, and again, welcome!

[wingchunflush]

Thanks, I read the stickeys and sent them to my work email to study during the work day. I am really getting alot out of them.

[tehDiceman]

my biggest problem with giving advice, i find it really easy to say that someone should push the AA on a junk flop with maybe an overcard that is uncoordinated. however, i dont think i would do that so i dont think it's right to tell someone else to. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

i feel that i know what the "optimal" decision is, but with my rediculously low bankroll, i dont like to play "high risk" even with the stakes being fairly low. not to say im checking the nuts, but with a hand that might be beat, i rarely try to push someone off a hand if i feel like i've got them beat, moreso valuebet myself into busto since they turn over some cards i wasnt expecting. maybe that is a leak of mine, not being aggressive enough when other players are passiving me to death.(is that a word?!)

on a side note, i've seen some of the most passive plays in the past few days that it makes it hard for me to enjoy playing sometimes. guys checking a set to the river then betting some menial amount of money to beat me, or me thinking that their line is so far off of normal that i should have them beat and they are just bluffing to steal it. i also saw a four flush draw get checked down to the river, the flush hit, the villian checked, his villians checked, he turns over the ace. why would you check that?! oh well, i wasnt in the hand.

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
but with my rediculously low bankroll, i dont like to play "high risk" even with the stakes being fairly low

[/ QUOTE ]

Deposit more money. You are letting your bankroll dictate your play. That's bad.

[tehDiceman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but with my rediculously low bankroll, i dont like to play "high risk" even with the stakes being fairly low

[/ QUOTE ]

Deposit more money. You are letting your bankroll dictate your play. That's bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

i tried that theory, i just lost more. im trying to get better and win my lost bankroll back as opposed to just dropping more in.

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he makes tons of monies at poker. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CrustyFace]

I currently have $115 and i am playing 25NL because i play better poker there than i do at 10NL. There seems to be no respect for bets at 10NL but more respect at 25NL, plus an incredible amount of donks.

It is really difficult for me to say what you should be doing without seeing you play. You may be too tight in which case START BETTING.

I used to be far too tight and i met one guy on here who, through AIM, has shown me how to actually play.

Find some people to talk to, focus on building that roll, but DO NOT look to making a living from this as an aim. It may happen, but you may get sick of it. For the time being just get your roll up so you can play some real poker at real levels (not that 25NL is real poker :P).

This is what i am trying to do, it is hard work, but you can do it.

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
I currently have $115 and i am playing 25NL because i play better poker there than i do at 10NL. There seems to be no respect for bets at 10NL but more respect at 25NL, plus an incredible amount of donks.

It is really difficult for me to say what you should be doing without seeing you play. You may be too tight in which case START BETTING.

I used to be far too tight and i met one guy on here who, through AIM, has shown me how to actually play.

Find some people to talk to, focus on building that roll, but DO NOT look to making a living from this as an aim. It may happen, but you may get sick of it. For the time being just get your roll up so you can play some real poker at real levels (not that 25NL is real poker :P).

This is what i am trying to do, it is hard work, but you can do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing NL with 5 buyins at any level is a recipe for busto

[CrustyFace]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I currently have $115 and i am playing 25NL because i play better poker there than i do at 10NL. There seems to be no respect for bets at 10NL but more respect at 25NL, plus an incredible amount of donks.

It is really difficult for me to say what you should be doing without seeing you play. You may be too tight in which case START BETTING.

I used to be far too tight and i met one guy on here who, through AIM, has shown me how to actually play.

Find some people to talk to, focus on building that roll, but DO NOT look to making a living from this as an aim. It may happen, but you may get sick of it. For the time being just get your roll up so you can play some real poker at real levels (not that 25NL is real poker :P).

This is what i am trying to do, it is hard work, but you can do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing NL with 5 buyins at any level is a recipe for busto

[/ QUOTE ]

If i didn't know this i wouldn't be posting it. I'm not saying that this is a good idea, i'm not condoning that he should do it, i'm simply trying to show that you shouldn't be afraid of going broke.

My personal reason for playing this short is that i find 10NL harder to beat because you get crazy amounts of calling going on.

[tehDiceman]

im scared of going broke because i have gone busto with 50 buck pops tons of times. im down about 300 bucks and im sick of busting out. the truth be told, i just sucked and didnt know what i was doing until just earlier this month. i almost went busto with my current 50, was down to about 6 dollars, then learned how i should be playing and immediatly won back 400PTBB at 5NL. im hovering around 35 bucks so im still not to my buyin yet, way far from making any money as well. im just trying to play "properly" and for the time being it is working. im thinking about moving up to 10NL though. this 5NL is taking me forever to make any kind of money and once i do, it gets donked away to someone that shouldnt be calling.

i also buy in "half stacked" for the default buyin at pokerstars. dont know why, just have always done it that way. i also think that full buyin for me is bad luck, everytime i do it i get donked out hard. maybe it is a leak of mine to see that 5 bucks sitting there and feel like im ahead since i normally see 3 when i start. who knows.

i also never rebuy unless i go broke on the table and feel like i should be winning against some of the villians. getting called down with trash makes me rebuy, but i never do it when i still have chips, it helps me regulate my bankroll a little more until it gets to the point where i dont have to worry about busting out because of rebuys and not seeing that im down to 5 bucks.

[Grunch]

Playing on a much-too-short roll...
Buyinig in short...
Not reloading when you can...
Being superstitious...
Thinking about moving up when you haven't demonstrated that you can beat your current level,or because "they will respect my raises higher"...

You are doing many of the things that fish do. Are you a fish?

[CrustyFace]

[ QUOTE ]
im scared of going broke because i have gone busto with 50 buck pops tons of times. im down about 300 bucks and im sick of busting out. the truth be told, i just sucked and didnt know what i was doing until just earlier this month. i almost went busto with my current 50, was down to about 6 dollars, then learned how i should be playing and immediatly won back 400PTBB at 5NL. im hovering around 35 bucks so im still not to my buyin yet, way far from making any money as well. im just trying to play "properly" and for the time being it is working. im thinking about moving up to 10NL though. this 5NL is taking me forever to make any kind of money and once i do, it gets donked away to someone that shouldnt be calling.

i also buy in "half stacked" for the default buyin at pokerstars. dont know why, just have always done it that way. i also think that full buyin for me is bad luck, everytime i do it i get donked out hard. maybe it is a leak of mine to see that 5 bucks sitting there and feel like im ahead since i normally see 3 when i start. who knows.

i also never rebuy unless i go broke on the table and feel like i should be winning against some of the villians. getting called down with trash makes me rebuy, but i never do it when i still have chips, it helps me regulate my bankroll a little more until it gets to the point where i dont have to worry about busting out because of rebuys and not seeing that im down to 5 bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being scared of going broke changes you game 100%. How can you possibly be prepared to bet, raise or reraise to get information when you are worried about whether you'll win or not.

I would put all my measley 115 bucks that you have a constant eye on your bankroll and until you stop worrying and stop playing, you will constantly go broke with small buyins.

[tehDiceman]

dont get me wrong, im not afraid to cbet a missed flop or raise hands. i just cringe a little when i get called. i dont think my short buyin nor my shortstack effectivly limits my game as i've about broken even from being 700ish PTBB down. my game has improved immensly and that encourages me to play my hands.