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View Full Version : Should I have folded the turn here with TPTK?


essence86
11-19-2006, 04:32 PM
Hi!

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $32.60
CO: $27.85
Button: $33.30
Hero: $25
BB: $25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $1.7</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($5.65, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $3.75</font>, Hero calls.

River: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif ($13.15, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $13.15</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $13.15 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: $13.15


Looking at this afterwards I felt c/c the turn was bad. I should have folded when he bet.
I donīt beat a ten, I donīt bet a flush, I dont beat a straight.

Antinome
11-19-2006, 06:42 PM
I think you should have led the turn, but you played it fine otherwise. The turn check induces a semibluff that you don't want to have to puzzle out. Just bet 4 and fold to a raise or river push.

EscapePlan9
11-19-2006, 07:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should have led the turn, but you played it fine otherwise. The turn check induces a semibluff that you don't want to have to puzzle out. Just bet 4 and fold to a raise or river push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shaddux
11-19-2006, 07:54 PM
I either lead turn and c/f river or just c/f turn.

IsaacAsimov
11-19-2006, 08:00 PM
I would also play lead turn with TPTK. The turn card is a scare card for both players you show weakness by checking and give your opponent a chance to bluff you out of the pot. I would lead turn and fold to a raise. If he calls you'll have to make another decision about the river.

kolotoure
11-19-2006, 08:03 PM
If he calls river is a c/f

Stronghands
11-19-2006, 08:41 PM
First let me say that I like the suggestions to lead the turn for about half pot. Frankly, the line I would normally choose would have put me in the same spot, and I think leading the turn for 1/2 pot clarifies matters.

Still, that commits 20% of your stack just to find out whether you want to continue. So I wondered what if you check the flop, since you've got AK OOP on a paired board with a flush draw. Depending upon how you feel about your opp, you can c/c flop and block the turn if it blanks, or c/r the flop if opp is over-aggro and may be betting a weaker A. When you get flop action after a c/r, you know that you're likely behind and you can find out for the same ~$5.

The advantages I see of checking the flop are:
1) It helps you to keep the pot small, making any further errors less costly (such as folding when ahead, or paying off when behind).
2) Leading flop and turn just helps the T extract value, esp. if your IP opp correctly puts you on an A and just calls a turn blocker. On the other hand, if opp were call-bluffing, he could play the same way and now realize how a raise or a large river bet are likely +EV. So you are in a tough spot if opp is thinking.
3) By giving your opp first stab at the pot, you can use your reads to make turn and river play easier.
4) Depending on the turn card, maybe JJ or a smaller pocket pair would be willing to call a small turn bet after your flop check. And another small bet on the end - thus letting you keep the pot small and extract value.
5) It balances your play somewhat - if you had AT or AA would you have bet that flop? What if you had KJd?

Some disadvantages I see are:
1) If opponent is loose, you can start extracting value now against worse aces or poor draws like QJo.
2) Checking the flop against over aggro opp yields the lead while not necessarily improving the information you're using to make a decision. Since you probably will call his bet, why not make the bet instead?

I really like the suggestion of the turn lead, since I get myself into spots like this all the time. I'm curious what people think about checking the flop? What other advantages and disadvantages have I missed?

Jamougha
11-19-2006, 08:53 PM
ni han

deaders
11-19-2006, 09:40 PM
You are commiting the same amount of money if you lead or c/c the turn.