Question for Veteran Five Diamond Classic Players

[TStoneMBD]

anyone know how tough the 5dc tournament fields are? do the tournaments pretty much consist entirely of pros or are there alot of fish in them as well? im thinking about flying out there if the fields are soft but not if i have to drop 50k on very difficult fields.

here is a list of all the tournaments.

http://bellagio.com/pages/gaming_poker_fivediamond_06.asp

tks for any help

[TheUsher]

Bellagio is pretty much the home for the "live pros" so I'd expect fields to be semi-decent. Expect a bunch of huge fish too for the same reason that it's "Bellagio", but you'll end up having a few recognizable people at each table.

[FatalError]

the 5k and larger events are going to be tough ones, the other events will probably be similar to the semi-soft bellagio cup II events

[stephenNUTS]

With nothing much else going on that week,I would expect the 3k+ events to be "fairly" tough IMHO

~stephen

[pig4bill]

The main event has the top name pros you would expect to see on tv. Doyle, Phil Laak, etc. I watched part of it last year.

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Doyle, Phil Laak, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange choices.

[betgo]

I didn't play in it, but I probably would have if my AA had beaten 76s allin preflop with 6 players left for 2 seats in an online satellite.

The lineup for the ME last year looked fairly tough. It's a 15K event, so it is going to be tougher than a 5K ME event and tougher than tournmaments with a lot of satelliters like the WSOP and events sponsered by online sites.

[Abones]

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Doyle, Phil Laak, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange choices.

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Phil "The Unabomber" Laak is the top five greatest texas hold them player ever.

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doyle, Phil Laak, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange choices.

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I remembered them from being in the last 27 when I watched last year.

[grdred944]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doyle, Phil Laak, etc.

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Strange choices.

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Actually not. The poster picked two of the most followed players at Bellagio last year. Laak couldn't twitch without having a crowd gawking at him.

[shaniac]

The fields aren't as tough as you might think, but probably tougher than prelims at any other tour stop. The structure kind of sucks, though. Still think bellagio is the nicest, most fun place to play tournaments. You can always go for the second "leg," which will keep your cost down and help avoid burnout.

[ravenfan1733]

[ QUOTE ]
The fields aren't as tough as you might think, but probably tougher than prelims at any other tour stop. The structure kind of sucks, though. Still think bellagio is the nicest, most fun place to play tournaments. You can always go for the second "leg," which will keep your cost down and help avoid burnout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on your comment regarding the structure. I thought that Bellagio offered "double stack" structures where, for example, a $2,500 event would give you 5,000 in starting ships with 25/50 starting blinds and 60 minute rounds.

I was under the impression that Bellagio prelim events offered a better structure than other WPT prelim events. Am I naive here? I plan on playing the 12/8 event so I appreciate your input! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fields aren't as tough as you might think, but probably tougher than prelims at any other tour stop. The structure kind of sucks, though. Still think bellagio is the nicest, most fun place to play tournaments. You can always go for the second "leg," which will keep your cost down and help avoid burnout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on your comment regarding the structure. I thought that Bellagio offered "double stack" structures where, for example, a $2,500 event would give you 5,000 in starting ships with 25/50 starting blinds and 60 minute rounds.

I was under the impression that Bellagio prelim events (though offered a better structure than other WPT prelim events. Am I naive here? I plan on playing the 12/8 event so I appreciate your input! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for all other WPT prelims, and I'm not an expert on tournament structures like Alan Gohering, but the Bellagio's "better structure" is a mirage in my opinioon. Although you start with 2x the buyin in chips, the early stages double (25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 1/2 ante) until the blinds hit 200/400. In my experience, the absence of a 75/150 and/or 150/300 level is the biggest contributor to a fast, crapshooty tournament in the early stages. If you survvive into the later rounds, it starts to feel like a better structure. Also, I think 60-min. levels is pretty standard aat buyins of 1k+).

Without a 150/300 level, the bellagio prelims (and even the 10K Festa El Largo) play pretty fast in the early rounds and arent anything special, structure-wise.

[Alan Goehring]

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I can't speak for all other WPT prelims, and I'm not an expert on tournament structures like Alan Gohering,

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I am certainly NOT an expert on the structure of preliminary events. I can say the Bellagio prelims have a SLIGHTLY better structure than their WSOP counterparts at the equivelent buy-in level.

Looking at hours until SC=BB (over 96% of the field will be eliminated at this point) shows:

2006 WSOP---------Bellagio (historical 2005/6)

$1.5k 10.9 hours-----11.0 hours
$2.0k 11.5 hours-----12.0 hours
$2.5k 12.1 hours-----12.5 hours
$5.0k 14.0 hours-----14.5 hours

The double starting chips provide a small advantage in that you get to play at a substantially deeper chip depth for one extra level. Comparing the WSOP $1.5k to Bellagio $1.5k would mean SC/BB for the first five levels of:

WSOP Bellagio

1 60x 60x
2 30x 30x
3 15x 15x
4 7.5x 15x (100/200/0 vs. 100/200/25)
5 7.5x 7.5x

This means a slightly slower "early bust-out rate" (i.e. slightly more average playing time) in the Bellagio $1.5k vis-a-vis the WSOP $1.5k. BTW, I consider any structure that doesn't start with at least 100x BB to be a joke.

While I wouldn't call the Bellagio $15k a great structure, it is relatively good compared to existing big buy-in events, with the equivelent of 5 (90 minute) levels more than the pathetic Foxwoods structure, 4 levels more than the EPT Championship 10k euro, and 8 levels more than existing WSOP $5k circuit events and some/most EPT (5k) events. The only events in 2006 with a better structure were the WPT $25k, WSOP $10k (July-Aug), LAPC/Commerce $10k and Aussie millions AUD$10k (approx USD$7.5k).

[shaniac]

Thanks Alan, I was merely asserting your expertise in analyzing structures, which you demonstrated in your post.

Also, I think you omitted the USPC from the list of tournament structures that rival the 25K WPT event.

[StaticShock]

What's the story on SNG qualifiers at this thing? Will the setup be the same as the WSOP where you win lammers good for entry into any of the tournaments? Also, can I count on them going already on this coming Thursday night? Thanks.

[pig4bill]

No, you win non-transferable entry into a tournament. If you've already won an entry and win another SNG, you get cash.

[stephenNUTS]

Shane/Allen G.

Great post about tourney structures,blinds,time vs.blind increase ratio,etc...........and also how lame "most" of them are as well

~stephen f.

[snagglepuss]

good thing i love me some no limit holdem!

seriously no plo event or lhe? bizarre.

[MaverickUSC]

Bizarre? Why would they would want to hurt their bottom line?

I played first three events, am playing next three... I was not impressed with any of the fields. I was very happy with the structures however. Double buy in starting chips, hour levels, all of them are there except 150-300, antes are kept low. Juice is a little higher this year, but that's been the lame norm.

[ligastar]

Very insightful Alan. TY.

[JoseGonzlez]

they have not had anything besides NL tounreys for last few years. They used to only draw like 60 people.

[Prime Time]

I played in the 2K event this past Saturday.
Can tell you that I never played with as many big named pros as I did in this one.

Ended up Bubbling 28th w/ 27 spots paying w/ QQ all in PF against AK of Yukon Brad Booth. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Played w/ Dave Williams, John Gail, Paul Dardin, Noah Boeken, Nam Le.
Can't remember the others.

Devilfish ended up winning heads up against Stzremp. Did not play against either of those.

With all these pros, and 378 runners, I still feel there was a lot of dead money and weak play.

Just my opinion.

[ace_in_the_hole]

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Played w/ David Williams. Jonh Gale, Paul Darden, Noah Boeken, Nam Le.

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FYP