How did things come to this! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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deehi

11-17-2006, 07:58 PM

First time posting a hand to be critiqued on here. The villian is a decent player who doesnt play a ton of pots but when he does he likes to rule the table. So his limp/call of my raise made me believe I had the best hand. When he raised, well.... /images/graemlins/confused.gif PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($21.50)
Button ($21.45)
SB ($9.35)
BB ($10)
Hero ($20.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to $0.5, MP calls $0.50, 3 folds.

Flop: ($1.15) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.7, MP raises to $2, Hero calls $1.30.

Turn: ($5.15) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.4, MP raises to $6, Hero calls $3.60.

River: ($17.15) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $13 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.15

kaz2107

11-17-2006, 08:14 PM

fold the flop...
fold the turn...
fold the river.

u have nuttin on the flop. u cbet and he raised saying u r behind.

then u call on the flop and hit tptk on the turn. unfortunatly for u villian raises again with the A on board thus saying he can beat tptk. the A didnt scare him. ur hand is basically flipped over imo and villian has said 3 times he beats u.

listen the first time and save urself a ton of moneies. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

PS
convert ur hands thnx

Everlong

11-17-2006, 08:17 PM

Chose the 2+2 format; here's your hand a bit easier on the eyes. Other than that what ^ said.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($21.50)
Button ($21.45)
SB ($9.35)
BB ($10)
Hero ($20.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to $0.5, MP calls $0.50, 3 folds.

Flop: ($1.15) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.7, MP raises to $2, Hero calls $1.30.

Turn: ($5.15) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.4, MP raises to $6, Hero calls $3.60.

River: ($17.15) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $13 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.15

Results in white below: 
MP doesn't show.
Outcome: MP wins $30.15. 

edit: I now see you had a fd which makes this less horrid.
I'd 3 bet allin on turn. As played I'd consider calling the river actually depending on opponent.

Wu36

11-17-2006, 08:48 PM

I 3b the flop and shove turn.

Marshall28

11-17-2006, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3b the flop and shove turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
no doubt

Phytopath

11-17-2006, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3b the flop and shove turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

kaz2107

11-17-2006, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3b the flop and shove turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

why r u 3betting with nothing??? and why would we push when we have been raised not once but twice and only hold tptk? seems alwfull spewy to me.

OP's read was villian seemed decent. wut range do we put a decent villian on who calls pre then raises the noncordinated low board. then raises AGAIN when an ace hits the turn?

deehi

11-17-2006, 10:05 PM

thanks alot. the one thing that came to mind was this guy has a set when he reraised, then that little voice said,maybe he doesnt and I can possibly hit the flush on the turn.

Have to say that this 3bet and turn push is mighty aggressive! i never considered the allin.

Sean Fraley

11-17-2006, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why r u 3betting with nothing??? and why would we push when we have been raised not once but twice and only hold tptk? seems alwfull spewy to me.

OP's read was villian seemed decent. wut range do we put a decent villian on who calls pre then raises the noncordinated low board. then raises AGAIN when an ace hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, we're representing AA on the flop and AAA on the turn. Here's why:

1) Villain didn't reraise the hero's flop raise, he just called. This could be suited A(KQJ), suited KQ, or pretty much any pocket pair hoping to flop a set.

2) One of the reasons that sets are so powerful is the fact that a top pair, an overpair, or two pair will bet or raise on the flop, putting in money when the player with a set has them beat. Hero's play on the flop lines up with an overpair. 3-betting the raise tells villain "if you raising TPTK, I've got you beat."

3) Shoving AI when the ace comes on the turn practically screaming to Villain that you had AA on the flop, got real lucky on the turn. If he takes any time to try and piece together the play preflop and flop, practically everything that hero did backs up that he is AAA on the turn.

3-Betting the flop and shoving all-in on the turn is a bluff, and like all bluffs is going to hurt if called. That having been said, it is a perfect bluff against a decent, observant opponent because the story adds up.

kaz2107

11-17-2006, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why r u 3betting with nothing??? and why would we push when we have been raised not once but twice and only hold tptk? seems alwfull spewy to me.

OP's read was villian seemed decent. wut range do we put a decent villian on who calls pre then raises the noncordinated low board. then raises AGAIN when an ace hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, we're representing AA on the flop and AAA on the turn. Here's why:

1) Villain didn't reraise the hero's flop raise, he just called. This could be suited A(KQJ), suited KQ, or pretty much any pocket pair hoping to flop a set.

2) One of the reasons that sets are so powerful is the fact that a top pair, an overpair, or two pair will bet or raise on the flop, putting in money when the player with a set has them beat. Hero's play on the flop lines up with an overpair. 3-betting the raise tells villain "if you raising TPTK, I've got you beat."

3) Shoving AI when the ace comes on the turn practically screaming to Villain that you had AA on the flop, got real lucky on the turn. If he takes any time to try and piece together the play preflop and flop, practically everything that hero did backs up that he is AAA on the turn.

3-Betting the flop and shoving all-in on the turn is a bluff, and like all bluffs is going to hurt if called. That having been said, it is a perfect bluff against a decent, observant opponent because the story adds up.

[/ QUOTE ]

if u think u can make it look like u have EXACTLY one hand playin NL20 and ave it b profitable u need to moveup to where they respect ur raises. this wont work nearly enough and thus is an awfull idea.

the only way this play is correct is if we think we are ahead of villians range here. id say we have very little FE here and thus we need to be ahead here (which i dont think we are)

deehi

11-18-2006, 07:20 AM

Not that this means anything,on the river I thought for a long time, using the time bank. Though I should have been pot committed by the size of the pot,I just let it go. Afterwards,villian types in "good laydown" and I type in 'set' and he types back "that was a goood read. Now,that response and a dollar will get you a Pepsi, but,this was what goes through my mind when the flop comes and my opponent pushes or reraises. Range of hands I put him on is a small pair, 44 or 77 of TT.

crookdimwit

11-18-2006, 09:44 AM

I think the problem with pushing the turn here is that, assuming villain has a set or two pair, you're only 20% or so to catch that flush.... And even then, the flush may be no good if the board pairs....

Based on the action, I'm guessing villain was sitting on 77, 44, AT, or TT...

And by the time villain has made his turn raise, half of his stack is now in the middle of the table. Unless he's totally bluffing, I think he's likely to call your all-in bet (especially at NL10 or NL25 or NL50), in which case, you're probably behind in this hand and only about 20% to win...

Good fold...