Bad losing session

[essence86]

Hi!

I just came off a bad session. About 700 hands, and lost about $50.
Does anyone else except me feel that the Full Tilt games are tough?

How did I play this AK?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25
UTG+1: $23.45
Hero: $29.20
Button: $18.20
SB: $4.05
BB: $63.95

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1</font>, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($2.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $12</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($26.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $20.2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button calls all-in $9.2</font>.
Uncalled bets: $11 returned to Hero.

River: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($44.75, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $44.75)


Results:
Final pot: $44.75


If I compare Full Tilt to Party Poker, Full Tilt is so extremely nitty.
Feels like the only time you get action is when you are up against a real good hand.

Currently running at 6 PTBB/100 Hands.
I want to stay around 7-8.

[MortenTA]

IMO you [censored] this hand up on the flop. Preflop is fine and the lead on flop is good. Then you [censored] up. Dont min raise him. He is shortstacked - Push his min raise on the flop.

[MattsTheMan]

Ya, I think u have to play a bit more Laggish at FTP. First when i started out to play i could not really play any winning poker at FTP but I could win at Party. But at that time i did play as a nit myself mabye VPIP about 16-18 or so.

Nowdays ive learned to play a bit more laggish and then its pretty ok you can steal alot of blinds of those nits with out any contest preflop.

[Miraculix]

Hi.

The way he played it, I think he has a set of 8:s or 5:s. (Not everybody has read Tiens great article about raising PP in position!) If he had KK, he would probably have re-raised you pre flop. Maybe K5s/K8s, but I don´t think so.
I think I would have just called his min raise on the flop and then check/call the turn (he´d probably push), but I´m kind of weak in these situations. I´ve lost a lot of money to small sets with TP and 2 pairs. But I don´t think I would fold top 2 here.

// M

[Check_The_Nuts]

just call his flop minraise. These bets are almost always monsters.

[Bonesy]

I've been on a disastrous run at FTP 25NL. I lost about $80 2 days ago do quite a bit to tilt. Losing KK to QQ twice didn't help but I could have trimmed it to $40 had I played better. In the last 5 or 6 sessions there, I have stacked a guy only once on extreme donk play. The rest of the times it was AA over KK and things like that.

I have definitely noticed that I'm not getting a lot of action with my good hands and plenty with my marginal hands. Sure there are tighties but I'm finding quite a bit of "splashers". I define them as loose players who are looking to hit big hands but won't give you much money when they hit marginal ones. I definitely prefer to have position on these guys but it isn't always possible when there are two or more at a table and frequently there are. BTW, these splashers aren't total donks. More times than not, they are up quite a bit of money. I still think there are tons of fish at NL25 but an emphasis on table selection is important.

[Perk76]

Ditto to table selection.

Even if you dont datamine other than when you play, open up a bunch of nl25 tables before you want to play. Then pick tables with 2 or 3 LAG's, preferably more aggressive, and sit directly on their left.

I recently left Stars to play at FT, and found that its easier to find good games, and table selection is easy. Results have been good through first 8k hands, and I attribute that to the selection of tables.

[eigenvalue]

You shouldn't wonder that the game is tough if You play that way.

He minraises. Either he is a donkey or - if You assume FT is that tough, he is strong and wants to milk You with a set - so fold, because You are beaten. If You are not sure if he is a donkey, than reraise to $12. If he reraises again, than You are beaten and You can save at least some money.

After his second reraise, if he is not brain dead doing that, You can be sure now that he has a set and You are drawing dead. You need to add only $4 on Your last closing bet on the flop, but You are drawing dead, there's no reason to spend anything more on that hand.

You could have saved $30 on this hand.

[jonyy6788]

I probably call the min. raise and re-eval the turn...which obviously was a good card for us (if he shows pressure after that A hit I think it's safe to assume a fold is in store).

This is of course villain-dependent...you make it sound like you were playing a bunch nitty set miners and then you payed them off.

[UncleKraut]

[ QUOTE ]

Currently running at 6 PTBB/100 Hands.
I want to stay around 7-8.

[/ QUOTE ]

[GtrHtr]

I'm not going to comment on the hand, most of what has been said is correct.

One of the "problems" with low limit forums is the lack of understanding about variance. Its only natural, as an understanding of the big "V" really comes with living through it, often several times. People don't write sample size as replies to how I'm doing posts for nothing. Sample Size.

Overall I'm impressed with how this forum mostly avoids the bad beat threads, but this one, and some of the replies are right on the border. I'm not being critical, just pointing it out in an effort to encourage some of you to analyze variance - and if you struggle with that, go get a copy of TOP and learn about why it happens. FWIW, I still struggle with it on some level and I've been playing a while and at higher stakes at previous games. Understanding it helps a lot in avoiding tilt and moving past it.

my 2 cents,

Gtr

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
If I compare Full Tilt to Party Poker, Full Tilt is so extremely nitty.
Feels like the only time you get action is when you are up against a real good hand.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($2.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $4</font>


[/ QUOTE ]

People only give you action with a big hand and you, the PF raiser, got raised on an extremely dry flop.

Nits play very predictably. The way to extract money from nits is not to try to make a big score with one hand, but rather to extract smaller amounts of money over a large number of hands. Nits will fold to your raises and bets without a great hand. Raising in position and taking stabs at pots will win you a lot of smaller pots without much risk -- nits will telegraph when they have you beat and you can fold without losing your stack.

One of the concepts in NLHTP says when you sit down at a table you should decide whether your profit will come from big pots or small pots and play accordingly. You need to adjust your game depending on what types of players are at the table.

[Chaos_ult]

I don't think table selection is really that important at this level - most are pretty bad. Unless you're talking about finding the tables that actually have people who buy in full.

They f'n love to shortstack at FT.

[jonyy6788]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to comment on the hand, most of what has been said is correct.

One of the "problems" with low limit forums is the lack of understanding about variance. Its only natural, as an understanding of the big "V" really comes with living through it, often several times. People don't write sample size as replies to how I'm doing posts for nothing. Sample Size.

Overall I'm impressed with how this forum mostly avoids the bad beat threads, but this one, and some of the replies are right on the border. I'm not being critical, just pointing it out in an effort to encourage some of you to analyze variance - and if you struggle with that, go get a copy of TOP and learn about why it happens. FWIW, I still struggle with it on some level and I've been playing a while and at higher stakes at previous games. Understanding it helps a lot in avoiding tilt and moving past it.

my 2 cents,

Gtr

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more with you regarding playing against looser opponents and at more advanced games. If we put it in with TPTK against a loose opponent, we probably have +EV. I do, however, feel that putting it in with TPTK against a nit is gonna be -EV long term, especially on that dry board.

It's all about knowing your opponents' tenancies and getting a feel of what their range is. If you're behind a majority of a person's range, then it's okay to fold.

Now if we're playing some donk who min. reraises us there with KQ or KJ or even middle PP, then we have to do a lot more thinking about variance. For example, you get stacked with TPTK one time against a bad player doesn't mean you shouldn't go the felt again if they are willing to call/push mediocre hands.

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to comment on the hand, most of what has been said is correct.

One of the "problems" with low limit forums is the lack of understanding about variance. Its only natural, as an understanding of the big "V" really comes with living through it, often several times. People don't write sample size as replies to how I'm doing posts for nothing. Sample Size.

Overall I'm impressed with how this forum mostly avoids the bad beat threads, but this one, and some of the replies are right on the border. I'm not being critical, just pointing it out in an effort to encourage some of you to analyze variance - and if you struggle with that, go get a copy of TOP and learn about why it happens. FWIW, I still struggle with it on some level and I've been playing a while and at higher stakes at previous games. Understanding it helps a lot in avoiding tilt and moving past it.

my 2 cents,

Gtr

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for someone else saying this besides me.

Essence,

Dont post beats. When posting a hand, make sure that its not just variance or that you are just posting it because you lost and if you won you wouldnt think twice. In general I notice most of the threads you are starting are general advice threads that arent really helpful, but you have shown a really high commitment which is to be admired. I suggest to start posting more hands that are giving you trouble because they are geniunely giving you trouble, not because you lost.

[dedmoney]

Seriously, you've lost 2-3 buyins in &lt;1000 hands? Sounds like a walk in the park. Last night I had to rebuy at every table I was at once. 4 rebuys in an hour. AA/kk, AA no good. runner runner straight, flush, quads, whatever. I played 1200 hands last night and wound up 7ptBB/100 due to 6 hands. All in my last fifty.

Was I happy I was almost going to get up down3-4 BIs, absoultely not, but it's part of the game. Sometimes you hit every four outer and life is beautiful, sometimes, your opponent hits runner runner everything and life sucks, but the 'beats' in this thread are laughable.

Suck it up, figure out the game and focus on making the right plays, regardless of the outcomes.

BTW first hand is easy drop after the 4 bet on the flop.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think table selection is really that important at this level - most are pretty bad. Unless you're talking about finding the tables that actually have people who buy in full.

They f'n love to shortstack at FT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say anything about table selection. I said you should adapt your play to the table you're playing.

[JackAll]

2 buy-ins is nothing. I win and/or lose 4-5 buy-ins in a normal session. Ending up down 5 sux, so 2 is really not even a thought for me. You're going to freak out eventually when you have a bad day and lose 10.

In your AK hand, the board is so dry on the flop that if they want to get it all in, you are almost always beat. So I would call his flop min-rz.