trying to make me fold or get it in?

[acidca]

~10 hands in, haven't played with villain before.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $24.55
UTG+1: $49.25
CO: $25.70
Hero: $48.40
SB: $68
BB: $99.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $3.5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($7.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $10</font>

What's he doing this with? People who minraise preflop aren't usually planning on jamming the crap out of the flop....

[the machine]

it doesnt matter. im not going to make a stand with bottom pair and a gutter against an unknown who has RR PF

pick a better spot

[MattsTheMan]

Fold. if you are planning to take a stand you need a hand.

[eigenvalue]

Whatever he does here, fold!

[acidca]

none of you answered my question

[Grumbo]

[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they're saying it doesn't matter since your hand is so weak. You don't have enough of a history with the player to know what he could have.

[acidca]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they're saying it doesn't matter since your hand is so weak. You don't have enough of a history with the player to know what he could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

..ok so pretend my hand is Q9.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they're saying it doesn't matter since your hand is so weak. You don't have enough of a history with the player to know what he could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

..ok so pretend my hand is Q9.

[/ QUOTE ]

intuitively i'd say you are now ahead enough to shove, but you can easily figure this out yourself by giving villain a range and pokerstoving it

[acidca]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they're saying it doesn't matter since your hand is so weak. You don't have enough of a history with the player to know what he could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

..ok so pretend my hand is Q9.

[/ QUOTE ]

intuitively i'd say you are now ahead enough to shove, but you can easily figure this out yourself by giving villain a range and pokerstoving it

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly my problem. I'm not sure what villain would minraise me with and then bet more than the pot on the flop with. I feel like the minraise preflop is a big pair or AQ/AK. But I'm not sure, some players will 3-bet loosely since my stats are 27/22 or so and I 3-bet a lot myself (although not for the min).
The question is, what would bet out that hard?
At first I thought that the bet was a weak hand, because someone who's trying to sucker me in preflop with a minraise usually doesn't jam it out there when the flop comes. However, I thought some more and a set is very possible. I have a super aggro image, so maybe villain doesn't want to get tangled up with a set when the turn puts 4 to a straight on the board or something. Or maybe this is way off. I don't see this move very often and I'm wondering if anyone else has some insight as to what he might be doing this with.

edit: do you think AK plays this way ever?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

well you are ~44% against a range of ATo+,ATs+,TT+, and just calling here is really bad, so basically you need to play for stacks if you continue, and the only hands that call you have you crushed. also, i imagine that his range is probably much tighter than what i gave. against QQ+, AQs+, AQo+ you are ~30/70.

so fold is really your only play

[Kyriefurro]

[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]

With just 10 hands, it's not possible to answer your question, especially since this is NL50. He could have AA/KK. He could have Q9s. Hell, he could have 72o and be hoping you'll fold. Against a complete unknown, there's just no way to so much as make an educated guess.

So, you take a good hard look at what you have, which, as everyone has said, isn't much. And then you ask yourself if you really want to pay $45 so you can see what villain's doing this with.

[acidca]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
none of you answered my question

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know


[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Xanthro]

You have bottom pair against a pot sized raise. Could it be a pure bluff? Sure, but are you will to put up your whole stack to figure that out?

Villain could have JTs, or AK, or QQ. Not everyone is going to slow play a big hand here.

[evilempire]

I'd bet villian has aces. Maybe KK/QQ/AK.
When villians act like they need to get the money in asap its usually aces.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
~10 hands in, haven't played with villain before.


[/ QUOTE ]

No one can tell in a vacuum.

Honestly there are two completely opposite types of people who do this- they have a decent hand and are afraid so they overbet hoping to take it down. They may have Aces or AK and are scared of the possibilities and don't really want a fight.

OR

People who do this with monsters and want to get paid. A set of kings, for instance, overbets hoping someone will look them up.

The only way to tell them apart is by watching them play awhile.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think AK plays this way ever?

[/ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, this would be my no 1 favorite. He miniraises pf because he has no idea about bet-sizes or why you rr, he just likes his hand. On the flop he hits so he bets big. From a poker pov this is rediculous of course. He is just externalizing his feelings towards his hand thru betting. The fact that against any sane opponent the money only goes in to the middle if he is beat with this line I think he considers a "bad beat".

[Thrahl]

A better question is, What hand are you beating? Against an unknown this is a turbo muck. Ive seen donks over bet like this with AA. But even against a wide range you are still a fairly huge dog. He could be "bluffing" with the best hand JJ,AQ,TT.

[acidca]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you think AK plays this way ever?

[/ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, this would be my no 1 favorite. He miniraises pf because he has no idea about bet-sizes or why you rr, he just likes his hand. On the flop he hits so he bets big. From a poker pov this is rediculous of course. He is just externalizing his feelings towards his hand thru betting. The fact that against any sane opponent the money only goes in to the middle if he is beat with this line I think he considers a "bad beat".

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be true against a few villains, but I doubt that most villains at this level are THAT dumb. Especially not ones who are 200bbs deep.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet villian has aces. Maybe KK/QQ/AK.
When villians act like they need to get the money in asap its usually aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the best answer I've seen, given the hand is played in a vacuum.


To give you guys some new info about villain, here's one hand he played that was a bit out of the ordinary:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG is villain: $102.85
UTG+1: $9.25
CO: $49.20
Button: $25.20
Hero: $44.40
BB: $69.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero folds, Hero folds, BB checks.

Flop: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($2.25, 4 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Villain bets $2.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises all-in $8.75</font>, 2 folds, Villain calls.

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($19.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $19.75)


River: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($19.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $19.75)


Results:
Final pot: $19.75
<font color="#ffffff">Villain showed 2s 2d</font>
<font color="#ffffff">UTG+1 showed 6h Ah</font>

I doubt Villain is completely braindead, but he is clearly not afraid to splash around.


And one more hand, me vs villain:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $49.20
UTG+1: $25.40
Hero: $44.15
Button: $69
SB: $93.10
BB: $18.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($6.5, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $2</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: $5 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $10.5

[Check_The_Nuts]

taking these new hands into consideration, flop is an easy fold.