50NL 6m: a hand where I hated a play by a 2+2er.

[Jigsaws]

SB in this hand is Vammakala. He knows I'm 2+2, I know he's 2+2, though we don't have any history at the tables. I don't think he makes the check-raise with anything but QJ, QT, KQ, AQ or TT. Meaning I might find a fold here with QJ.

I'm not posting this because I want to rag on him. I'm just wondering what a better line is. One that is slightly more deceiving to a thinking player.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Hero ($49.25)
Button ($77.15)
SB ($50.95)
BB ($28.75)
UTG ($154.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with X, X.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($6.50) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, Button calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $20</font>

[Jouster777]

Heh, well one of your "X's" is a Q since you didn't list QQ in his range.

I agree with your range until you consider: "He knows I'm 2+2, I know he's 2+2" and he may be getting cute.

[Jigsaws]

I don't think he's getting cute with the unknown Button in the hand.

I didn't include QQ because I assume he reraises that preflop 100%.

[gimmetheloot]

reads on button determine his range much more accurately IMO.

FWIW, I think his range is a bit wider than you are believing, and not just because you are a 2p2 also.

[Jigsaws]

Hmm. What do you think is in there? J9? Pocket pairs?

I didn't know Button, FWIW.

[sigurrostyp]

he doesn't have a queen and is representing one. The only hand I'm worried about is 1010 here.

[Dave I]

As you said button in hand means Q/TT is more likely than getting cute.

If I am SB, I like leading this flop with anything I felt was worth calling preflop with. If I C/R, I more than likely do not have the Q. My range would be a T, some other PP, or total air.

[kazana]

[ QUOTE ]
As you said button in hand means Q/TT is more likely than getting cute.

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends a lot on button. If button loves to call down w AK, this could be for value with medium/low pocketpairs. If button folds anything but the nuts (aka weak), then even more so.

Also, this could be 22-99 trying to take it down, hoping to make a Tx or better pocketpair fold.
It's not unreasonable to assume that your raising range has more foldables in it than Qx type hands.
As for button, I suspect button hasn't been too bright from villain's point of view. If he's weak non-bright, even better.

Also, look at the flat call in the blinds. Looks a lot more like SC, pocket pair (99 and lower) than TT, KQ, or AQ (which more likely would've been a 3-bet from an aggressive 2p2er).

This could very well be a steal, especially since it's really hard to continue here unless you do have a Q or at least an overpair.
So, I'm not inclined to give a known aggressive 2p2er much respect. Especially not if I'm holding Qx.

[kolotoure]

Against someone with 2p2 stats I am c/ring a huge range

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
he doesn't have a queen and is representing one. The only hand I'm worried about is 1010 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. This is a great play because the board is so hairy that you really have to consider folding even relatively decent hands like JJ. His range is totally enormous. You have to be right on top of your reads because if you push this you have to fear the Q, if you call and get bet into on the turn you have to fold anything that isnt a FH, and if you fold now you're gonna feel like you are getting punked out.

Note to Jigsaws - the fact you lead the flop more likely means cbet to a 2p2'er than a queen. He doesnt have to give you any credit for any hand at all, and if he feels like you can find a fold with a mid PP on this board, his c/r is totally perfect.

Id range him on straight draws, any Q, all pairs and even some weak T's like ATs. Given that, if I held ANY queen I would push this all day.

nh vammakala /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Jigsaws]

I think it's funny that y'all think this is a great play w/o a Q. What does that say about making the play with the Q?

*nudge, nudge*

[kazana]

"Play your (semi-)bluffs the same way you'd play your big hands."

*nudge, nudge*

[Jigsaws]

Umm, right. But we have no history so far. So you're saying he should be making this play with a Q because I should know that he's capable of making this play w/o a Q. I think that's a bit much to assume of me (I'm a donk, remember?).

[kaz2107]

couldnt his thinking be that it is gonna b pretty tough to stack u but play in a way in which he thinks he can stack the unknown button.

i often just assume the decent 2p2er in the hand will figure out wut im doin either way but if i try sumtin weird i will lose the donk in the hand as well and thus just play normal and look to stack the donk on the hand with my good holding.

as for a different line to b more deceptive to u i think he could fake float u possibly. check call and raise the turn to make it look like he thinks u r simiply firing a 2nd barrel and he is raising tryin to pick off ur 2nd barrel.

either way i think it is gonna b tough for him to stack u. u r a thinking player and thinking players that have sorta solid reads are tough to stack regardless.