Some questions about online Micro Limit

[Bartzini]

I just recently started playing online, i only deposited 50 dollars on to Fulltilt as of Friday.

I decided to start off with 2 .10/.25 No limit tables at first juts to have some fun and see how it played. I found myself doing ok. From the 25 dollar buy in, i had myself up to $58 on one table and $42 on the second. I took one semi bad beat with KK against AA on the $58 dollar table and left me back down to about $35 before i stopped on both.

Next day i decided to try a lower limit, just to be more bankroll concious. I went to the .5/.10 NL table where i was just staying even the majority of the time. Id get up a bit, then have some situation flopping top 2 pair against a set in position and be back to even again. I did manage to donk off about 12 bucks here on one table, but it was completely my fault, just not paying attention. I found myself loosing interest, and surfing the web due to the stakes being too low, but thats neither here nor there i guess.

I have one hand in particular where i got into a heated argument with a guy at the table, over a measly 13 dollar pot, but im curious how you think of it. Did i make a horrible play as this guy seems to tell me over and over...or was it just a bad spot to be in.

I dont have a hand converter so bare with me.

Im dealt 10/7 off suit on the button (i like these kind of hands cheap in position). The table limps around with 5 people to the flop and i call the bb as well, with the sb and bb completing.

The flop is dealt 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The whole table checks to me on the button, so i bet out about 1/2 the pot with my OESD.

SB Folds BB calls 1st position calls rest fold.

turn is a J /images/graemlins/spade.gif Completing my straight.

It is checked around to me again. I bet out about 3/4 the pot here.

BB thinks about it for about 30 sec then calls, 1st position insta calls.

River is a blank black card, i think ok good, flush draws (which is what i put the BB on) is dead, 2 pair is drawing dead. It is checked around to me again. I bet out 4 dollars, which i believe was about 1/2 pot at this point.

BB folds (busted bare ace)

1st position calls after thinking and shows 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for the win.


he then go's on to tell me how horrible my play was, and how im such an idiot donkey for betting into the best hand..etc...i try to explain him my line, but he obviously doesn't care.

I dont pretend to be a card genious by any means, i think im ok...ive won and lost my fair share, im probably break even at best...but i enjoy playing. I just dont see how i can not make the bets im making here...i think i could have avoided the river bet, just because the only thing im getting called with has me beat, but i seriously figured he may have KJ or K9 or something similar that micro limit players fall in love with, and didnt want to push it due to the hearts...anyway...criticism welcome. Id like to know how others would have played this situation.


regards

[Supwithbates]

river bet is thin, most of the hands taking the check/call line here are either slowplaying made flushes or drawing to one, it's unlikely many hands you beat are calling river. Up til then it's NH.
And tell him he's a donk for calling with 2 5 under the gun in the first place, and then giving 2 free cards for any drawing hand to stack him. He's the donk that played horribly, not you.
Even river is OK because hands like KJ/K9 will often call here.

[kurto]

Personally, I don't draw for straights with 3 to a flush because of precisely what happened. I certainly don't bet on my draw unless the table is very tight. (at $10 tables... people will call with any flush and certainly any flush draw).

You certainly should have checked behind on that river.

[Bartzini]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I don't draw for straights with 3 to a flush because of precisely what happened. I certainly don't bet on my draw unless the table is very tight.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well i kind of thought this way, but i bet the flop thinking i had position and fold equity. If i was beat there id expect to get at least a small raise therefore i could dump my second best draw, if there were inferior "scared" hands (KJ K10 K9 K8) or drawing hands i expected the check calls.

My thought is if they are going to play the bare ace, then im gonna make them pay me off, if the 4th heart hit it'd be an easy dump, if not i stood a change of winning a decent sized pot. I just couldn't see the 1st postion player playing a hand like 2/5 suited. I could see KJ K9 or K8 though. Ill admit the river bet was unneeded...

thanks for the replies thus far.

[chiyochan]

why would you explain your line?

[Bartzini]

Well i didnt really explain, but i said something a long the lines of he check called down, i was in position with the second best hand..what was i supposed to do?? let a bare ace catch up free? and he just kept saying, "your a really bad player!! LOLOLOL!!" so i just stopped replying at that point.

[DeuceSeven]

After the turn bet was check called by 2 players, I'm in check/call mode if a safe river card comes. There's no need to bet on the river against 2 opponents.

The guy with the flush played this horribly.

[Vern]

Also don't play 10NL at FT, the rake is double, 10% of the pot. There are other sites with 5% NL10, if that is your full bankroll and you don't intend to refill it if you go busto, you are underolled for both NL10 and NL25, but the higher rake at NL10 really does hurt. If you are willing to re-infuse then that is not an issue.

[Bartzini]

[ QUOTE ]
Also don't play 10NL at FT, the rake is double, 10% of the pot. There are other sites with 5% NL10, if that is your full bankroll and you don't intend to refill it if you go busto, you are underolled for both NL10 and NL25, but the higher rake at NL10 really does hurt. If you are willing to re-infuse then that is not an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh wow i didnt realise that. Thanks.


I may just single table .10/.25 nl and hope to not swing down.


im completely aware my stack isn't sufficient for the limits, i just wanted to test the waters, which i have now.

[Reid L]

Every time you limp from the button Jesus kills a kitten.

[kabouter]

move down, technically you aren't even rolled for $5nl /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[johnc]

The villain played his hand badly so don't sweat it. The river bet is debatable, however, given no reads, and no real strength shown thus far on the villain's part (he could have gotten alot more out of you) the bet, for value, could be justified.

BTW: $50 is way too small to be playing, even at NL5. If you plan on playing with any sort of frequency and want to keep improving your game then you need about 20-22 buyins for the games you intend on playing. That would be around $100 but I'd recommend more like $110 -$125 if you are just starting out b/c even though you may feel you're doing pretty well, however, the downswings ie losses will happen, guaranteed. The properly sized roll will help keep you in the game while you get better.

[Bartzini]

[ QUOTE ]
$50 is way too small to be playing, even at NL5. If you plan on playing with any sort of frequency and want to keep improving your game then you need about 20-22 buyins for the games you intend on playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, good information. I can see the logic behind buying in for 500 dollars to mathmatically play 25NL, i think my wife may see otherwise though /images/graemlins/smile.gif


I have no doubt that im way underrolled for any viable limit of poker, i was just doing it more for fun, but i think if i decide to make a go at keeping an online bankroll and moving up in limits possibly, ill definately keep it in consideration.

I think tonight i may take my remaining money and sit with it all at the deepstack (200bb) .15/.30 and see if i can grow it some...if not ill gather the horses and re-evaluate online play again.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$50 is way too small to be playing, even at NL5. If you plan on playing with any sort of frequency and want to keep improving your game then you need about 20-22 buyins for the games you intend on playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, good information. I can see the logic behind buying in for 500 dollars to mathmatically play 25NL, i think my wife may see otherwise though /images/graemlins/smile.gif


I have no doubt that im way underrolled for any viable limit of poker, i was just doing it more for fun, but i think if i decide to make a go at keeping an online bankroll and moving up in limits possibly, ill definately keep it in consideration.

I think tonight i may take my remaining money and sit with it all at the deepstack (200bb) .15/.30 and see if i can grow it some...if not ill gather the horses and re-evaluate online play again.

[/ QUOTE ]

(1) if you're decent I think you can start small, nutpedal and build up a decent bankroll. I would feel comfortable playing with $200 and just nutpeddle at the $25 tables until you get a big enough bankroll to open up your game. But $50 is not enough.

Sitting down at one deepstacked table with one buy is not a good idea.

(2) If you are even a breakeven player - do a buyin bonus and let your wife know that you can double your money in a few short weeks... better interest then banks.

** I stress again that this is all under the assumption that you are a consistant player. It took me a while for my wife to be comfortable depositing another $600 on FUll Tilt for the buyin bonus.

[Mal_Pais]

Read the stickies. You're way underrolled for those limits. And limping T7o is not the best play in a limped pot. Then chasing a straight on a flush board is another "not the best play." Surfing the 'Net while playing = you guessed it, "not the best play." Arguing with fish = yep, you guessed it again.

KK vs. AA is not a semi bad beat. Its a hand that's beat when the money goes in.

Get properly 'rolled, play TAG poker, smile through the real bad beats (you'll experience plenty of 'em), and watch your game improve. Good luck.

[Archon_Wing]

[ QUOTE ]
Also don't play 10NL at FT, the rake is double, 10% of the pot. There are other sites with 5% NL10, if that is your full bankroll and you don't intend to refill it if you go busto, you are underolled for both NL10 and NL25, but the higher rake at NL10 really does hurt. If you are willing to re-infuse then that is not an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Why would full tilt do this?

[Bartzini]

I don't think i ever questioned the fact that i was underrolled to play poker...i was well aware of that when i decided to check it out.

and not that i doubt you, but would you suggest raising 10/7 off the button in a large multiway pot preflop?

Would you suggest folding for 1 bb to a 6bb pot?

I honestly thought a hand like this you want to get in cheap and go from there.


thanks again though.

[checkmate36]

Lots of good info in this thread for the OP.

I have a question of my own for OP...

If you could take out your whole bankroll (Its probably somewhere around $50-$100 from what I can tell after reading your post) crumble it all up into a ball, put it in an ashtray. Call your wife over to your dinner table where you put the ash tray. Tell her to watch this. Then light that loot on fire. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Do you think could light the match? Do you think your wife would like for you to do that? Think of the flowers you could have bought her. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Playing with your whole stack at the table is no different. It all depends on what your trying to do with your poker future. If your looking to improve your play you should check out the advice in this post. If poker is just another form of entertainment, just like a movie or dinner, then enjoy yourself and I along with the rest of the forum hope you have fun and make some loot during your deep stacked session.

[tehDiceman]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think i ever questioned the fact that i was underrolled to play poker...i was well aware of that when i decided to check it out.

and not that i doubt you, but would you suggest raising 10/7 off the button in a large multiway pot preflop?

Would you suggest folding for 1 bb to a 6bb pot?

I honestly thought a hand like this you want to get in cheap and go from there.


thanks again though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would suggest folding it, that is a junk hand in my book, in position or otherwise. if tons of limpers call in, then you limp as well regardless of postion, you have no idea where you stand when the flop comes. as shown, the flush flopped and you had no clue you were pretty much drawing dead from the get go. the villian played badly yes, but if you had folded this preflop, you wouldnt have lost the money. just because there is a ton of dead money on the table does not change that your hole cards suck or not preflop.

i also dont think odds really play in this situation preflop since your hole cards are not that great and you still limped. limping is the devil, you will learn this. limp with aces, slowplay, then watch your bankroll dribble away from the suckouts and ask why it happened. tag is the way to go from my experience. calling 1bb to win 6bb is something you must look at from a postflop situation in my mind. if i called 1bb for every 6-8bb pot preflop regardless of my starting hand just because i could possibly flop with the nuts is not the way to be a long term winner. flopping two low pair when someone hit a set and slowplays will kill you. you dont know where you stand, you wont be able to read villian hands, etc.

limping 1bb to a decent pot is a random occurance for me and is completely table dependant, i might do it with 910suited or a suited one gapper, but im not doing it often because as stated, more often than not i get wrapped up in pots i shouldnt be in.