$50: TPTK guy pushes river?

[NL Newbie]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

SB ($56.38)
BB ($50)
UTG ($67.91)
MP ($41.05)
CO ($53.66)
Hero ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $1.50.

Flop: ($5.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($5.75) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $11</font>, Hero calls $4.

River: ($27.75) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)

CO pushes.... Hero ?

[CrustyFace]

Bet the flop, as it stands on the turn you have no information on what he has.

[True]

check flop is fine.

True

[degenrat]

no flipping way i check this flop. as played the river fold is laughably easy.

[NL Newbie]

[ QUOTE ]
no flipping way i check this flop. as played the river fold is laughably easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you put villan on, and why are you betting this flop?

[degenrat]

I am C-bettign this flop because i took the lead preflop and the flop looks harmless. By the river i don't know what to put my opponent on because i got no information from checking the flop.

I bet the flop and evaluate the turn.

You through your positional advantage out the window when you checked behind. take the free money.

what i do know is i have 1 pair on a straight flush paired board.

[NL Newbie]

so you bet flop, your called. Turn comes, you bet and get raised you just ditch your TPTK?

[Jigsaws]

I don't raise turn. If he makes a really weak bet on the river, I might raise for value.

If I bet the flop and turn, and he shoves it in, I fold.

[ticks]

[ QUOTE ]
I am C-bettign this flop because i took the lead preflop and the flop looks harmless. By the river i don't know what to put my opponent on because i got no information from checking the flop.

I bet the flop and evaluate the turn.

You through your positional advantage out the window when you checked behind. take the free money.

what i do know is i have 1 pair on a straight flush paired board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto c-betting always is throwing your pos. advantage out the window.

You should be aware that any pocket pair or draw will likely call on this flop.
Sometimes I bet, sometimes I check.
If villain is loose or aggro (i.e. capable of cr bluff) I lean towards checking.
If checked to again I will bet any turn.
I think you should call turn, If he is bluffing he should get another chance.

Edit: your hand is face up when you raise the turn,
and villain can play perfectly (if he is capable of such a thing).

[degenrat]

Ticks, i think this is the EXACT type of flop we should be c-betting. maybe we have a villain who floats thats why we reevaluate the turn.

Check ing this flop means we are giving up on the hand. The perfect turn card comes for us here and we are still scared to play. thats why i dont check. checking means we have no plan for the hand.

I do not cbet always, this is one of the times i think it is perfect.

[degenrat]

"so you bet flop, your called. Turn comes, you bet and get raised you just ditch your TPTK? "

Depending on my read, speed of the bet, and the card i do.

I prob call a turn raise if small enough and assess the river.

The river push cements the fold here though.

[ticks]

[ QUOTE ]
Check ing this flop means we are giving up on the hand. The perfect turn card comes for us here and we are still scared to play. thats why i dont check. checking means we have no plan for the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are not giving up.
Even if I dont hit on the turn, and villain bets out, sometimes I will continue (with a read).
Calling villains turn bet is not 'scared' - we are trying to find the line that maximizes EV against villains range.

When we cbet we are bluffing, we hope to win the hand right there.
Many villains will not belive us when we bet out on flops like these
- and call with a wide range of hands.

If I was villain, I would think: "this is a perfect flop for a float".

[degenrat]

i think we are losing money by not taking this pot down on the flop.

[wslee00]

OP - please raise more in general, you are giving great odds for villains to draw out on you.

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]
i think we are losing money by not taking this pot down on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
We are loosing when villains call us all day.

OP: preflop is ugly, I would make it at least 3.5. I think checking and betting this are both ok. I would probably just call the turn bet and re-evaluate on the river. As played river is a super-easy fold.

[degenrat]

"
We are losing when villains call us all day. "

You are assuming this bet gets called very often. i would say this bet takes the pot down 50+% of the time at the 25NL level.

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]
"
We are losing when villains call us all day. "

You are assuming this bet gets called very often. i would say this bet takes the pot down 50+% of the time at the 25NL level.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't seem to agree on a lot of things. At all.

[Imrahil]

I find cbets work &gt; 50% at 25NL.

[johnc]

I'm c-betting this flop for three reasons: 1) we have no reason to believe the villain hit this flop 2) our check behind throws any FE out the window - regardless of how small our FE vs this villain is (unless he's complete calling station on the flop) a c-bet from this perspective gives us every chance to take it down here, 3) I'm willing to take it down here while the pot is smallish and forces the viilain to make the difficult decision - a check behind potentially places a difficult decision on us on the turn and possibly the river. If we are called, well then have to evaluate the turn card and the villain's action - on the turn I'd call a less than PSB in this case to a realtively safe looking card and be looking for a possible river check and fold if he fires a reasonable bet on the river.

Turn as played: I'm leaning towards a fold to the reraise.Yeah the villain could be donk-betting a weaker ace however, the reraise gives us the strong impression we're beat. I believe, I would just call here for pot control and calling a reasonable river bet (1/3 pot or less).

River:fold

[orange]

flop check is good.

i typically don't raise the turn, just call his bet.

[degenrat]

"We don't seem to agree on a lot of things. At all. "

I agree /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Imrahil]

Once you play the turn aggresively and on the river he pushes, you have to fold. He knows your strong, yet he shoves. Unless he is using some fourth level thinking the river is an easy fold.

[Phytopath]

If you check the flop (I wouldn't, but you can sometimes) then you need to just call the turn and call a reasonable bet on the river, or make a reasonable bet yourself if checked to. But as everyone else said this fold is beyond easy after he called your turn raise, I'd call a tiny bet but thats about it.