Will You Meet Your Dog In Heaven? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

David Sklansky

11-12-2006, 05:53 PM

I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones. But what about your dog? Many people could not be fully happy if he wasn't included. But without a soul he can't be. Does God instead provide merely a replica? But many would not be satisfied with that even if he acted identically. Does God lie to them with the idea that what they don't know won't hurt them? Is this another question Iron Unkind doesn't know the answer to?

DougShrapnel

11-12-2006, 05:58 PM

In heaven you are the dog. God's faithful, loving servant.

chezlaw

11-12-2006, 06:02 PM

The problems worse for humans isn't it? What about the mother who loves a non-believing son, does she get a replica?

chez

r3vbr

11-12-2006, 06:08 PM

This is a trick question. Heaven does not exist..

FortunaMaximus

11-12-2006, 06:10 PM

What do you think an eschatonic paradise would limit, David?

No such thing as a replica. That much benevolent power assumes the ability to continue, not recreate. Timeless infinity.

Who knows, maybe that's the ultimate purpose of this particular Universe. Enough space for googolplexes of individuals. And we're barely into the preface.

Doesn't really matter if it's pre-existing or we learn and develop the abilities to create it ourselves. However, I think the latter would be a lot more satisfying. Be the first to arrive, watch your descendants on TV, get assigned to a retrival project.

I know, man, it's wishful thinking. Optimism is a good thing to have. Belief's gonna be irrelevant, and the joke might be on atheists when you give them millennia to catch on. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif No backdoors, baby.

NotReady

11-12-2006, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But what about your dog?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dog, maybe. Cat? No way.

r3vbr

11-12-2006, 06:14 PM

Also, a question to catholics. God invented everything right. So why did God invent Hitler, Serial killers, Child-rape butt-sex, necrophilia, genocide, torture, cancer, ebola, Pol-Pot, the plague, etc.
I dont know much but seems like some sick creations... no?

r3vbr

11-12-2006, 06:15 PM

sicko?

FortunaMaximus

11-12-2006, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a question to catholics. God invented everything right. So why did God invent Hitler, Serial killers, Child-rape butt-sex, necrophilia, genocide, torture, cancer, ebola, Pol-Pot, the plague, etc.
I dont know much but seems like some sick creations... no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably ain't it. Deviance variance when you let anythin' happen. We've developed a moral code that condemns that stuff. And by damn if we didn't come up with it on our own.

NotReady

11-12-2006, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]

So why did God invent Hitler

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did evolution? Why select for genocide? What could she have been thinking?

vhawk01

11-12-2006, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So why did God invent Hitler

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did evolution? Why select for genocide? What could she have been thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lucky for evolution, she makes no claims as per her omnibenevolence, ultimate justice or otherwise. (Anthropomorphosing to fit in)

Prodigy54321

11-12-2006, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But what about your dog?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dog, maybe. Cat? No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about an actual answer..I am genuinely curious about your opinion

Prodigy54321

11-12-2006, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problems worse for humans isn't it? What about the mother who loves a non-believing son, does she get a replica?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

I think christianity is very clear that the importance placed on human relationships (even close family) should not be anywhere close to that of a relationship with god...

anyone who sees a problem with killing their own child if god tells them to..I guess isn't as good a person as they could be. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

arahant

11-12-2006, 07:33 PM

What's funny is, I can actually give reasons for genocide to be selected for pretty easily. As someone around here is fond of saying....do you see why?

arahant

11-12-2006, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But what about your dog?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dog, maybe. Cat? No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about an actual answer..I am genuinely curious about your opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

actual answer? I assume that intelligent people find the question unanswerable, what with there being no such thing as 'heaven', and that people who believe in heaven generally think that they have no way of knowing what heaven is like beyond 'pretty sweet, man'.

If i were making up a 'real' answer though, i would say the dog is there. Lacking a soul, the dog is no different from my kitchen table vis-a-vis eternal life and whatnot. God sees him as another object which i find useful, and provides him to me.

Reminds me of the futurama episode where Fry finds a fossil of his dog...man that was sad, huh?

Lestat

11-12-2006, 08:46 PM

It had always been my understanding that animals don't get into heaven. But you'll be in a place of such inexplicable bliss you won't miss your pet.

What I want to know is what happens if you go to heaven and your child commits a mortal sin. Or your wife/husband? I guess you won't miss him/her either.

soon2bepro

11-12-2006, 09:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a trick question. Heaven does not exist..

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It's a trick question, but not because the belief is unlikely or even wrong, but because the belief contradicts itself. However I think that was precisely what DS's point was.

Not that it hasn't been shown a thousand other times, but he has some sort of fixation with this issue.

David, you probably know about this site already, but if not, I think you may like it quite a bit: James Randi Educational Foundation (http://www.randi.org/)

They even have very large forums where they discuss all these subjects.

Or maybe you just do it to keep this forum alive :/

Borodog

11-12-2006, 09:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones. But what about your dog? Many people could not be fully happy if he wasn't included. But without a soul he can't be. Does God instead provide merely a replica? But many would not be satisfied with that even if he acted identically. Does God lie to them with the idea that what they don't know won't hurt them? Is this another question Iron Unkind doesn't know the answer to?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you ever see the old black and white Twilight Zone episode where the hunter and his dog are killed, and wake up to find themselves walking up a tree-lined road to Heaven? They meet a man at the gates, who informs the Hunter that he is more than welcome to come in, but the dog can't come. The hunter calmly explains that if the dog can't come, he doesn't want to go. They continue up the road to discover the real Heaven, and learn the first place was a trick. The hunter and his dog are both welcomed in.

That's how I would feel about the whole "Heaven" thing. If my dogs, who are far better, nobler and more virtuous than I could ever hope to be, can't get in, then I'm not interested in your clouds and harps.

KUJustin

11-12-2006, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite certain that you could have read that somewhere and equally certain that the somewhere wasn't the Bible or anything with a strong Biblical basis.

I'm really struggling to figure out how to make this relatable for a non-believer. Think of the single most enthralling thing you've ever seen on TV. Were you thinking about what color your carpet is or how many lamps were in the room or even who was in the room with you?

Now imagine that instead of something on TV we're talking about the God of the universe. The details really start to disappear now.

Terrible explanation but it's the best I can give you.

revots33

11-13-2006, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite certain that you could have read that somewhere and equally certain that the somewhere wasn't the Bible or anything with a strong Biblical basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been to many Catholic funerals and I can't remember one where the priest didn't talk about our eventual reunion in heaven with the recently deceased loved one. Maybe the priests are just trying to make us feel better, but they sure give the impression that's what Christians believe.

On another note, why is it necessarily true that a dog, cat, chimpanzee, etc. can't have a "soul"? I mean, if god created them maybe he gave them their own souls. It seems a little conceited to assume that of all animal species on the planet, only homosapiens have a soul. We may have a bigger brain but I don't see why that is a requirement for a soul.

soon2bepro

11-13-2006, 12:23 AM

because if they had souls we would have to treat them as equals. So it's a moral necessity for them not to have souls.

NeBlis

11-13-2006, 12:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of the futurama episode where Fry finds a fossil of his dog...man that was sad, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

So sad I actually cried over that episode.

If there is a heaven and somehow my athiest soul ends up there I hope to see my dogs past and present. If not I'm sure to get booted out right after I kick god in the nutz for screwing up heaven.

NeBlis

NeBlis

11-13-2006, 12:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's how I would feel about the whole "Heaven" thing. If my dogs, who are far better, nobler and more virtuous than I could ever hope to be, can't get in, then I'm not interested in your clouds and harps.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

NeBlis

NotReady

11-13-2006, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

how about an actual answer..I am genuinely curious about your opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

I know of some Christians who are certain one way and others the other way. I wouldn't be surprised in either direction but I don't have a fixed opinion about it. Not unlike ETs - no Scriptural indications, no reason to choose one over the other. As far as preference, I hope ALL animals are reborn and I hope the universe is chock full of ETs.

DcifrThs

11-13-2006, 03:50 AM

a) i dont believe in heaven.

b) if i did believe in heaven, why would it have to conform to the logical rigor you place on it?

c) if i did believe in heaven, and i somehow got in, you better believe my dog coco will be there with me.

Barron

51cards

11-13-2006, 04:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

how about an actual answer..I am genuinely curious about your opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

I know of some Christians who are certain one way and others the other way. I wouldn't be surprised in either direction but I don't have a fixed opinion about it. Not unlike ETs - no Scriptural indications, no reason to choose one over the other. As far as preference, I hope ALL animals are reborn and I hope the universe is chock full of ETs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite sure he's being serious. But I find it absolutely hilarious. Someone being 'sure' that dogs are alowed into heaven. And someone being 'sure' that they arn't. Seriously? Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I cry.

Mickey Brausch

11-13-2006, 04:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones. But what about your dog? Many people could not be fully happy if he wasn't included. But without a soul he can't be.

[/ QUOTE ]Stop right there. (We have to save NotReady from dog poop.)

If Paradise is anything like the habitat of Adam and Eve, then Paradise would include many things without a soul, such as trees, fruits, animals. Fido would fit right in.

Mickey Brausch

NotReady

11-13-2006, 05:06 AM

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We have to save NotReady from dog poop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no pooping in heaven. Only in that other place. Every 1st grader knows that.

Mickey Brausch

11-13-2006, 09:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

We have to save NotReady from dog poop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no pooping in heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]Adam and Eve did not poop in Eden ?

NotReady

11-13-2006, 10:11 AM

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Adam and Eve did not poop in Eden ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know. But the two are not the same.

FortunaMaximus

11-13-2006, 10:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Adam and Eve did not poop in Eden ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know. But the two are not the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you aren't suggesting God decided to punish her with an anus too after she made the "error"? That's not nice.

CityFan

11-13-2006, 10:53 AM

I don't have a dog.

CityFan

11-13-2006, 10:56 AM

If heaven really was that kind of place, then clearly everyone you wanted to be there with you would be there, and you'd be protected from the reality that THEIR version of heaven doesn't necessarily have you in it.

Nielsio

11-13-2006, 11:40 AM

You haven't quite grasped the whole *dead* thing, have you?

jogsxyz

11-13-2006, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

We have to save NotReady from dog poop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no pooping in heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]Adam and Eve did not poop in Eden ?

[/ QUOTE ]

No pooping? What about eating? Will there be meals in heaven?

usaftrevor

11-16-2006, 05:27 PM

This topic was already discussed in 1989 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096787/)

vhawk01

11-16-2006, 05:31 PM

Zombies. Should have known. The answer is ALWAYS zombies.

FortunaMaximus

11-16-2006, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Zombies. Should have known. The answer is ALWAYS zombies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naw. Goats. Gotta have 'em. Ship 'em, Sherman.

Sorry, John. You did steal from Robert, dude. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ALawPoker

11-22-2006, 02:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I read somewhere that heaven, among other things, is a place where you will join your loved ones. But what about your dog? Many people could not be fully happy if he wasn't included. But without a soul he can't be.

[/ QUOTE ]Stop right there. (We have to save NotReady from dog poop.)

If Paradise is anything like the habitat of Adam and Eve, then Paradise would include many things without a soul, such as trees, fruits, animals. Fido would fit right in.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it wouldn't be "him." A dog is a conscious being; a tree is not. If "he" was there, it would be a replica, as Mr. Sklansky's post went on to discuss... before you stopped him.

SNOWBALL

11-22-2006, 03:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
because if they had souls we would have to treat them as equals. So it's a moral necessity for them not to have souls.

[/ QUOTE ]

since when is religion concerned with treating people equally?

Semtex

11-22-2006, 08:24 AM

I don't know, but with all these questions Mr. Sklansky seems to be approaching the danger zone. I can't tell whether he is God fearing or God-questioning. Questioning people ask these questions, while God-fearing people generally don't (say no to forbidden fruit). Where does he stand? I'm not religious, but it seems if you do believe in God you should not be deliberating these sorts of things, just accepting.