Moving up...

[Kerosity]

So.. I finally made the move from NL10 to NL25 when my BR hit 550$..

My first session I assume I played overly loose, because I had the mindset "Don't get tight".. so I lost 2 buyins.. yeh w/e just a nromal day..

Next session.. Im up 2 buyins.. and then I had some personal issues (Canker sore ripped open and I had to stop the bleeding.. rofl).. So I paused. Come back.. and now im down a little over 6 buyins total.. (So my BR is a little under 400$).
Im now mad in the least.. about how I played.. Alot of bad situations I was in.. and I got outdrawn a few times.. but.. my question is.. When do I give up? Im technically not Br'd for NL25 anymore.. but I know its just varience..

[Kerosity]

Also keep in mind.. im telling you all this in the middle of the same sessino.. just curious if I should call it a day and move down or not..

[degenrat]

what site are you playing? imo different sites warrant different approaches. what are your stats over your time at 25nl?

I think 25nl has less variance than 10nl in general.

[Sir Winalot]

Move to 200nl where they respect your raises.

[kolotoure]

[ QUOTE ]
Move to 200nl where they respect your raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a stupid and pointless post

[Kerosity]

[ QUOTE ]
Move to 200nl where they respect your raises.

[/ QUOTE ]


What exactly was your point of making that comment? Because im not in the least bit of complaining.. im asking a bankroll management question... my stats are::


21/15 down 6.25 buyins.. heh.. this is 6max btw.

oh and im on stars..

[Kerosity]

Like I said.. I dont think im playing any different than NL10.. It's just a bad run of cards... but siunce I started at nearly the BOTTOM bankroll of this limit.. when is it time to close up shop?

[danny8]

#if you start losing your confidence and playing differently than you were at 10nl then move back down till ya get it back!

If you're certain your a winning player at 10nl, and can rebuild your role if you do move back down, then as long as you review your 25nl hands and make sure your not making bad descisions, then stay at 25nl. If you get below $300 move down no matter what and rebuild.

[Kerosity]

Okay there we go.. A stopping point.. haha.. I asked like 8 people.. and they all said "When your not rolled" and im like.. what the crap.. if I go up at the bottom bank roll, lose one pot for 1$, im not rolled any more.. lol

But yeh I haven't lost confidence because it was just bad hands running up against slightly better ones (JJ v QQ, QQ v AK)

Just made some big variance plays because of the hands I had logged on people, and they ended up sucking out.. so theres nothing I can do about that except wait the time out.. And like I said.. in no way am I complaining.. Just explaining my situation.. I know NL25 is full of donks.. thats why I love that and NL10.. lol

Just dont want to lose my roll, or lost more of a roll then I should by playing wrong limits..

[kolotoure]

I would play 25NL until i only have 10 buyins for 10NL

[Kerosity]

Play it until 10 buyins for NL10? I dunno about that.. I cant see myself sanely playing NL10 again for 40 buyins.. maybe ill stop at like.. 25buyins for NL10.. but nothing LOWER then that.. I know I can crush NL10.. But I dont wanna go through that hell.. lol.

[ChipStorm]

Kerosity, I allow myself 1 table at the move-up level when I have 21 buyins, 2 tables when I have 22, 3 when I have 23, etc. But that's a minimum BR requirement, and it applies intra-session, every single minute. If I'm 4-tabling, and I lose a few buyins and realize that I'm down to, say, <22, then I'm no longer rolled for 4 tables of the higher level (or even 2), and I close 'em up until I'm down to 1.

Just fix some absolute, hard rules for minimum bankroll, that apply every second, mid-session or no. Then it will just be automatic, and you'll be able to forget about whether you're playing over your head and focus on playing well.

[avfletch]

Personally I'd definitely stop for the day and then review all the hands before playing again. If its just variance then you're lot losing much by stopping, if it has affected your play then you'll lose a lot more by continuing.

After that you'll probably be ok playing until about $300 so you still have 30 buyins for $10NL. Just make sure you're always playing +EV and not letting stuff like the level get in the way.

[kabouter]

Well the exact same thing happened to me last week, I moved up to 4tabling 25nl, dropped 5 buyins in about 2 hours (with all of those allins I was ahead when I got the money in though, so basically I played good).
After that I really didn't feel like playing poker again ( I was playing bad too, even at 10nl), but today I've started playing $10nl again, and searching for some easy to clear bonus sites to keep me busy.

So I moved down till I'm back at $1000 again. I think it's a good idea to take a step back, because you might go on tilt otherwise, but that depends on the person playing offcourse.

Anyways gl to you, I still think I can beat 25nl but I just had some bad luck...

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'd definitely stop for the day and then review all the hands before playing again. If its just variance then you're lot losing much by stopping, if it has affected your play then you'll lose a lot more by continuing.


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I moved from $50 -> $100 recently when my roll scraped into 20 buys for $100NL.

I decided that I'd stick at it until I lost 5 buyins no matter how - if I got my $ in as a favourite and lost my 5 buyins I was still moving down - I was confident that I was killing $50NL and that recouping my losses wouldn't take too long if I had to drop again.

Straight off the bat I lost 3buyins - wobbled a little but I managed to keep at my new level without hitting my loss limit and 10k hands later I'm running at 3PTBB/100 and will have to lose 10 buyins now to move back down.

I'd quit today take a break and review your play - be honest with yourself and if it's bad luck keep going and if it's bad play move down already.

Set yourself some kind of limit and stick to it mid session end of session - whenever.

It takes longer to rebuild at a lower level than it takes to lose it at a higer level, don't cripple your roll so much that you gotta go back to grinding lower for too long - but make sure whatever limit you set is comfortable and realistic for you - and only you know what that limit is.

[degenrat]

Kerosity, Full ring might be better for you right now.

As for bankroll, i am not BR expert but for me there is a comfort level i play with at a certain $ amount. i am rolled at $300 on a couple of sites and play $25NL with ZERO fear of goign broke. If i hit a huge downswing i'll probably drop down to $10NL again around $125 or so.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay there we go.. A stopping point.. haha.. I asked like 8 people.. and they all said "When your not rolled" and im like.. what the crap.. if I go up at the bottom bank roll, lose one pot for 1$, im not rolled any more.. lol

But yeh I haven't lost confidence because it was just bad hands running up against slightly better ones (JJ v QQ, QQ v AK)

Just made some big variance plays because of the hands I had logged on people, and they ended up sucking out.. so theres nothing I can do about that except wait the time out.. And like I said.. in no way am I complaining.. Just explaining my situation.. I know NL25 is full of donks.. thats why I love that and NL10.. lol

Just dont want to lose my roll, or lost more of a roll then I should by playing wrong limits..

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you beleive your're good enough to play at a higher limit, but you don't think you have a big enough bankroll to survive variance?

If this is true, then why not play higher but plan to replenish your bankroll if you go busto due to variance? I mean, ten buy-ins at NL25 is $250. I assume you can scrape up that kind of money. If not, then maybe you need to reevaluate where you are right now in life, and your willingness or unwillingness to get a job (or to get a second, part-time job).

[Kerosity]

Well.I was informed that Your BR should be 20 buyins minimum to stay away from variance.. But... I have a good job.. well for my age (Im 18, and i work full time for 12.50 an hour, with a monthly bonus of 400-800$) So The problem isnt Replenishing my bankroll.. The problem is.. I don't want to keep feeding poker with my money.. because then it will just become a problem.

I know I can play NL25, It's not TOO much better of a field then NL10.. and I im 9PTBB/100 hands at NL10 so im not that bad of a player in my opinion..

There are a few things I would like to save for.. so I tried keeping my bank roll seperate from my actually earnings.. Maybe im approaching this the wrong way.. So give me some insight.





And as for playing bad.. This is a call a Made that im not too sure about.. Maybe someone can give me insight, cuz im going over my hands right now trying to figure it out...

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $34.75
CO: $94.15
Button: $24.30
SB: $5.95
Hero: $25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $5.95</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises all-in $34.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero calls all-in $19.05</font>.
Uncalled bets: $9.75 returned to UTG.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($36.9, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $17.85, Sidepot 1: $38.1)


Turn: T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($36.9, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $17.85, Sidepot 1: $38.1)


River: K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($36.9, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $17.85, Sidepot 1: $38.1)


Results:
Final pot: $36.9

The guy who reraised Has done it to me like 5-6 times.. He reraised me off alot of hands by reraising that big.. and his stats are 40/14/3, so I didnt think getting it in here was too bad.. But maybe it was because of my call before that.. should I have folded to the small stack push?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Well.I was informed that Your BR should be 20 buyins minimum to stay away from variance.. But... I have a good job.. well for my age (Im 18, and i work full time for 12.50 an hour, with a monthly bonus of 400-800$) So The problem isnt Replenishing my bankroll.. The problem is.. I don't want to keep feeding poker with my money.. because then it will just become a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I can play NL25...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just reading the above two quotes makes me think you aren't sure about your own abilities. Indeed, if you "know" that you can beat NL25, then it should not be an issue if you go busto on a light bankroll and have to replenish, since this would not become an ongoing trend, assuming you were losing only to variance. Of course, if you really aren't good enough to beat NL25, then no size bankroll is going to help.

I guess I'm reiterating the obvious fact that having the bankroll for a particular limit and having the skill to beat a particular limit are two issues which can be totally unrelated.

[Spanky1974]

What's wrong with moving down to $10 NL to rebuild? Should only take a few days to make it back if you're crushing the $10NL, and you will have some extra practice in.....GL!

[Dennisa]

I only played 57 hands with you yesterday, so I dont have much to go on. You seemed to of played well at the table. 25/19/4 . Goot stats. The hand I posted you hit it head on, but may of given villian too much credit for the draw,....but he actually had it and you stacked what little he had left on the river.

What was your thinking of checking your trips against the shorty on the turn? Were you gun shy, did you have that good of a read on the villian that you thought you were drawing to fh to win? Were you afraid of the stakes??

If you are afraid of the stakes, try playing 2 NL10's and 2 NL25's and slowly work your way up to NL25. Im thinking I need to transition up to NL 50 soon. Having some of your same issues going up to the next level.



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($59.50)
CO ($8)
Kerosity:($26.10)
SB ($14.40)
BB ($9.30)
Hero ($23.85)

Preflop: Dennisa is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Kerosity raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $1.

Flop: ($2.85) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2</font>, CO calls $2.

Turn: ($6.85) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Kerosity checks.

River: ($6.85) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Kerosity raises to $6</font>, CO calls $1.75 (All-In).

Final Pot: $17.60


Dennisa

[Kerosity]

I remember I had T9 on that hand I think.. and when I hit my trip nines, I dont really remember my concept of checking here... My only two thoughts right now are either:
I was trying to show a little weakness to make him do exactly what he did on the river... that OR my bet I made on the flop was one of those "instant" calls where my only guess was that he was drawing...

[AnjoRush]

Well... stay focused on game selection, big stacks and loose players on your right, i saw the JJ hand, big stack on your left sux, move up this table.

20 buy in for 25NL is ok, if you'r confident stay there till lets say, 300...

[blackize]

The bet 3bet in the JJ hand is almost always QQ+ AK

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
The bet 3bet in the JJ hand is almost always QQ+ AK

[/ QUOTE ]
The shorty can have a lot in the JJ hand. The 4-bet push is a different story and I'd grid my teeth and fold. If he has been doing this a lot this is a good spot to look him up, so with your read I'm calling but by default I'm folding.

[blackize]

Oops. I was referring to the 4bet of course. Unless this guy is a maniac and he's been doing this a lot I'd fold, watch the showdown, and make a note.

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
Oops. I was referring to the 4bet of course. Unless this guy is a maniac and he's been doing this a lot I'd fold, watch the showdown, and make a note.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I figured that you meant the 4-bet, I nitpicked to keep the advice clear.

After rereading his reads I noticed he's probably talking about SB pushing a lot. If thats the case this is a clear fold to the 4-bet.

[blackize]

I looked at his reads again as well. Looks like the guy who 4bet has been pushing him around. I MIGHT be inclined to look him up here, but with stats like 40/14 it isn't too likely he's shoving here with much that doesn't have us flipping or dominated.

[Freelancer]

[ QUOTE ]
I looked at his reads again as well. Looks like the guy who 4bet has been pushing him around. I MIGHT be inclined to look him up here, but with stats like 40/14 it isn't too likely he's shoving here with much that doesn't have us flipping or dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the 4-betting villain did this 5-6 times before its unlikely he has a premium hand. I'm yelling; EMBRACE THE VARIANCE !! in chat and proceed to call. Its a really thin call though, and your probably better of folding if you just moved up and your bankroll can't handle a few hits.