AK makes tptk but villian has to have a set... where do i get away [Archive]

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kaz2107

11-11-2006, 02:05 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($49.50)
BB ($88.70)
UTG ($53.75)
MP ($31.60)
Button ($33.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, UTG calls $3, MP calls $3, Button folds.

Flop: ($11.50) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $8.5, UTG raises to $17, MP folds, Hero calls $8.50.

Turn: ($45.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $15, Hero calls $15.

River: ($75.50) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $18.25 (All-In), Hero calls $14 (All-In).

Final Pot: $107.75

Thoghts and reads...
Villian is unknown. he has been at the table less than an orbit.

This hand played out and it looked at best i could split but i couldnt find a reasonable spot to fold because of the pot size and the way the hand played out. where do i get away? or is check calling best here?

Vern

11-11-2006, 02:12 PM

I don't think you could ask for a better board on the flop. He just min raises you there so I might push back. Looking at this, I think I might c/r the turn. We are getting all-in on the river because of the pot/stack sizes ratio and his bets look weak. I don't like waiting for the river to check and let him check a weak hand behind and the turn c/r has more fold equity than waiting to let him bet at the river in position.

ticks

11-11-2006, 02:13 PM

Belive an unknown.
Limp/call raise/raise king high flop multiway = better than one pair.
This is 66/77/67 a lot.
Flop action could mean 45/89 but I wouldnt heh bet on it.

You either fold flop or you fold never IMO.
Choose your poison.

ticks

11-11-2006, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...and the turn c/r has more fold equity than waiting to let him bet at the river in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is never folding a better hand.

kaz2107

11-11-2006, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you could ask for a better board on the flop. He just min raises you there so I might push back. Looking at this, I think I might c/r the turn. We are getting all-in on the river because of the pot/stack sizes ratio and his bets look weak. I don't like waiting for the river to check and let him check a weak hand behind and the turn c/r has more fold equity than waiting to let him bet at the river in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

wut does c/r do? wut hands are he folding that beat me? he might laydown AK but that is doubtfull imo. there arent relly n e draws for me to push out. 2pair hands seem unlikley here. i dont see why we need FE. it seems like by playing the hand this way we r only losing value from hands i dominate n e wayz.

i took a check call line here to let give him a chance to bluff hands like 99+ and KJ and KQ.

could u elaborate on this for me and let me kno wut is flawed in this thinking. thnx

kaz2107

11-11-2006, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Belive an unknown.
Limp/call raise/raise king high flop multiway = better than one pair.
This is 66/77/67 a lot.
Flop action could mean 45/89 but I wouldnt heh bet on it.

You either fold flop or you fold never IMO.
Choose your poison.

[/ QUOTE ]
wut is ur preference here? against an unknown. fold to a minraise wit tptk? seems soooo weak tight but does seem right here.

ticks

11-11-2006, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Belive an unknown.
Limp/call raise/raise king high flop multiway = better than one pair.
This is 66/77/67 a lot.
Flop action could mean 45/89 but I wouldnt heh bet on it.

You either fold flop or you fold never IMO.
Choose your poison.

[/ QUOTE ]
wut is ur preference here? against an unknown. fold to a minraise wit tptk? seems soooo weak tight but does seem right here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it seems weak tight (and God knows these people show down a lot of crap).
But look at it from his perspective, and at the texture of the board.
If you had AA and the board was 256 then folding to a minraise would indeed be bad.
Or if you had some history with villain, and knew he was aggro or tilting.
But villain cant think 'the flop probably missed him, I bluffraise' with the K on the board.
He is most likely thinking 'I dont care what that fool has, I raise'.
Which is kinda worrying.

Vern

11-11-2006, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Belive an unknown.
Limp/call raise/raise king high flop multiway = better than one pair.
This is 66/77/67 a lot.
Flop action could mean 45/89 but I wouldnt heh bet on it.

You either fold flop or you fold never IMO.
Choose your poison.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the underlying premise of this. Either don't call the flop raise or see the felt. Once you called the flop raise, my turn c/r advice is how to make sure your opponent doesn't check behind on the river or you end up calling do to bet/pot sizes when he would likely only bet the river ahead of you.

Vern

11-11-2006, 02:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you could ask for a better board on the flop. He just min raises you there so I might push back. Looking at this, I think I might c/r the turn. We are getting all-in on the river because of the pot/stack sizes ratio and his bets look weak. I don't like waiting for the river to check and let him check a weak hand behind and the turn c/r has more fold equity than waiting to let him bet at the river in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

wut does c/r do? wut hands are he folding that beat me? he might laydown AK but that is doubtfull imo. there arent relly n e draws for me to push out. 2pair hands seem unlikley here. i dont see why we need FE. it seems like by playing the hand this way we r only losing value from hands i dominate n e wayz.

i took a check call line here to let give him a chance to bluff hands like 99+ and KJ and KQ.

could u elaborate on this for me and let me kno wut is flawed in this thinking. thnx

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't say anything was flawed, I am by no means an expert.

After I decide to stay on the flop I have decided I have the best hand and we should be on the felt. The pot will be bigger than either stack if I call the flop, so I commit to being all in on the flop. 3betting the flop does let bluffs get away, so I like the call, then c/r the turn to get it all on or bet it all on the river if he checks behind on the turn. Your line might be better.

If you don't think you are in the lead when he raises your flop, you cannot call. If you think you are ahead, I think you have to figure out how to get the most of his money in the middle at show down (which won't be hard when you are behind). w/o a read at this level, I am not giving a min flop raise with these stacks credit for beating TPTK yet.

Sir Winalot

11-11-2006, 03:28 PM

I don't like your flop call at all. I think you have to either fold or push because if you just call here the rest is going in on the turn anyway. Against an unknown I would probably fold this to the minraise on this dry a board.

Sir Winalot

11-11-2006, 03:31 PM

AnjoRush

11-13-2006, 02:35 AM

fold flop IMO, multiway the gay limped, and check raise flop on this board, many times this mean 66 , 76 or 77 as said on posts before. I hate min-raises, i guess i fold on flop here, and stay away from trouble

Big Poppa Smurf

11-13-2006, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold flop IMO, multiway the gay limped, and check raise flop on this board, many times this mean 66 , 76 or 77 as said on posts before. I hate min-raises, i guess i fold on flop here, and stay away from trouble

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf? did you even read the op?