$25nl 6max: big blind Q9s turns into trips on river, value bet?

[akkahai]

A non-descript $25NL basic villain.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($15.10)
SB ($6.60)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($24.30)
MP ($23.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.75) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

<font color="blue"> No way am I getting involved with 2nd pair.. </font>

Turn: ($0.75) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $2.5</font>, SB folds, Hero calls $1.75.

<font color="blue"> Ok now I have 2nd pair + FD, and nobody seems to be interested. I try to pick the pot up, but get raised. I decide to call because I have a nifty draw. </font>

River: ($5.75) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2</font>

<font color="blue">Whoo, trips. He puts out a small bet. The question is, is this a good enough hand to raise for value?</font>

[CaucasianAsian29]

On the river I like to lead for $5. I think too often your going to see it checked behind and you'll miss alot of value.

[ATrain]

I am not sure how I would play this, but I will try to give you advice, mainly because I am hoping you can answer a question for me.

Why don't you want to raise? I think a lot of worse hands would call, and the only hands he can realistically have that beat you are QT, A9 maybe a badly played 66, right?.

I don't think he has Kx from his flop play, but he could, and I think he'd call a raise with Kx, Jx and a weaker 9.

Now to my question, would 3betting this turn be ok, or is that kind of play better used on the flop?

[Gravy]

Yeah river lead for about $4 looks good. I think you can also make a case for a big 3-bet on the turn but without reads I think the way you played it is probably better.

[CaucasianAsian29]

[ QUOTE ]

Now to my question, would 3betting this turn be ok, or is that kind of play better used on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I don't think a 3 bet would really be good on the flop or turn because I believe your only getting called by hands which beat you. and if your thinking of this as a bluff it's probably not worth it

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Now to my question, would 3betting this turn be ok, or is that kind of play better used on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I don't think a 3 bet would really be good on the flop or turn because I believe your only getting called by hands which beat you. and if your thinking of this as a bluff it's probably not worth it

[/ QUOTE ]

The T is also probably an out as well. So you have probably 13 outs, and maybe even 19 outs (although the 19 outs become alot more suspect if he calls). But I don't think it's a horrible 3-bet, especially since he didn't bet the flop. What do you put the villain on? I think the villain has TJ.

[akkahai]

[ QUOTE ]
On the river I like to lead for $5. I think too often your going to see it checked behind and you'll miss alot of value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this didn't even come to my mind. I guess I wanted to check-call, as he was raising turn he would probably bet. At least that's my instinct, to check to the aggressor.

[akkahai]

[ QUOTE ]

Now to my question, would 3betting this turn be ok, or is that kind of play better used on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't 3bet semibluff on a turn like this ever. On the flop with a pair+FD that would be OK I guess but on the turn equity drops to a point where it changes this into more a pure bluff than a semibluff.

At least in NL25 I have learned to never bluff. It rarely works and it's not worth it. Still I do it sometimes and regret it after /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Now to my question, would 3betting this turn be ok, or is that kind of play better used on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't 3bet semibluff on a turn like this ever. On the flop with a pair+FD that would be OK I guess but on the turn equity drops to a point where it changes this into more a pure bluff than a semibluff.

At least in NL25 I have learned to never bluff. It rarely works and it's not worth it. Still I do it sometimes and regret it after /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you put the villain on since he checked the flop?

[akkahai]

[ QUOTE ]

What do you put the villain on since he checked the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really in the point yet where I put my opponents on hands during a hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif All I thinked of was he has something good and I have a draw now. And then I thought about whether my two pair outs were good because one of his likely holdings is two pair.

Thinking about it now, either he is slowplaying something (66, 99, AA, K9, K6), he caught something on turn (J9, J6, JJ, QT, xx/images/graemlins/spade.gif (+straight draw?)) or he is bluffing. He is probably not bluffing, his raise looks like serious business.

[Antinome]

Lead flop all day every day. It is hard to hit flops. You probably have the best hand. If not, there are lots of ways this hand might improve. If you are only betting with TPGK+ then you are way too predictable.

If Button just calls, then I'd be happy with a turn B3BAI, or CRAI as button is short, but not so short there's no FE.
Check/fold is fine too, but a little weak. Calling his raise is meh, since if your obvious draw hits he ought to be able to get away, and you don't really have direct odds even if he's only in there with K4.

Luckily you hit one of your less obvious draws. It beats most of his range. He has like ten dollars left. That seems like a good amount. You can get called by worse hands since your push looks like a busted draw.