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View Full Version : Tien's Article on Mentality, Image, and changing gears


Tien
11-10-2006, 03:32 PM
Ok, This is a follow up article to the last one I wrote: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7827947&page=1&fpart=1&v c=1)

I finally got around to writing this and will probably be the last one I write before I disappear from the online poker world altogether.

Although I think this article should have been written before the first one, since I will talk a lot about mentality which I feel is the most important thing a player needs to develop first. I will mix up image in here somewhere too.

First though I would like to rant about a couple of things first before I really start. Starting players hoping that they will make something out of this game really need to ask themselves a question.

How badly do you really want it?

What it takes to continuously go from level to level in poker is an insane desire to continuously challenge yourself and improve. You won’t go anywhere thinking how you play right now is sufficient for whatever stakes. IMPROVE YOURSELF.

There is a huge growing army of 12 tabling hudbots continuously grinding away. Some of them are improving, some of them are not. If you belong in the category of players who don’t improve than you will be left in the dust. The games ARE getting tougher for those who are NOT continuously improving. 1.5 years ago, I don’t think I even heard of multitabling TAGs playing at 25/22 at Mid stakes with insane relentless post flop aggression. Now, if you visit the mid stakes forums, it’s the norm.

Ok, so the first thing you need to change is your mentality. And by surfing these forums, I can guess there are thousands of winning players who need a total mentality re-haul. You may ask, but Tien, they are winning, what’s wrong with them?

My Answer: They still complain, whine and bitch about irrelevant things. They still get angry and emotional when a doofus fish sucks them out when they are a 85% favourite. They get frustrated and cry out to people who don’t even care saying how badly they are taking it. It doesn’t make any [censored] sense whatsoever to complain about getting sucked out. And if you are running bad, guess what, I DON’T [censored] CARE.

Poker player who needs a total mentality re-haul: “OMG MY AA JUST LOST TO 44 ALLIN PREFLOP 134993024 TIMES TODAY, IM DOWN 15 BUYINS, OMG I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE”

My answer: “I don’t care”

Poker player who doesn’t need mentality re-haul, this time he is thinking to himself whenever the following happens:

Loses AA vs KK allin pre 3423432 times. “Whatever I don’t give a [censored]”

Loses a bunch of coinflips on monster draws. “Whatever I don’t give a [censored]”

Loses a whole bunch of buyins. “It’s about time these weaksauce [censored] win something from me”

You need to be cool and remain calm. Your reaction to winning a 200 BB pot should be the same as the reaction to losing a 200BB pot.

Next time you complain to someone. Remember that deep down what they are really thinking is “I don’t care”. Complaining serves no purpose whatsoever and should be completely and 100% erased from your character. Getting sucked out and going on downswings is the nature of the beast. It can’t happen any other way. How does complaining or whining help you improve? It doesn’t. It makes you a worse player.

You can’t win if you don’t get sucked out.

You can’t improve if you never go on downswings.

You can’t succeed if you never fail.

Mentality change goes beyond complaining / whining / bitching. If you want to change yourself from a weak tight player to an aggressive player (Notice TAG and LAG both have the words aggressive in it) you need to change your mentality first. No matter how hard you try to change something, if you don’t program it into your head, YOU WILL NOT CHANGE.

You need to start to think aggressive every time you sit down in your sessions. Think about opportunities to raise and re-raise and win pots. You need to have that image of a player who is constantly raising and re-raising and instilling FEAR into the other players.

Don’t make sissy as hell bets and raises either. Every time you bet or raise, bet and raise like you mean it. 2/3, to ¾ pot size bets to build big pots to stack people or make them fold.

Again, for the mid stakes players nowadays, this is the NORM. For a lot of you starting players out there, there is an entirely new concept that you NEED TO LEARN AND IMPLEMENT.

I don’t want to get so much into post flop because that subject is really complex, but I’ll give a couple of examples.

1) You raise 10Js on the button and some weaktight fish who limps before calls. Board comes 48K rainbow and he donk bets into you meakly. Raise the [censored] out of him!
2) You raise A5s in middle position and flop comes 3s4sQx. You lead out and bet and get miniraised or raised. RERAISE. You have 12 outs here and plenty of fold equity, ALLLIN.
3) You have 98s and raise in the button and some guy calls. Flop comes 7810 rainbow. He leads into you. RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

Results in these hands don’t matter nor should you care if you lose being 40% dog or whatever. You played these using concepts of fold equity properly.

These are just a couple of examples of what kind of an aggressive mentality you need to have. Don’t take these examples in stone every single time, but the mentality behind these examples is what you need. Once you change your mentality into the one proper for poker, many many postflop decisions will become easy to you. I guarantee that.

On towards Image.

So what image do you really need? As mentioned before you need an image of a player that the table is afraid to play against. And at small stakes NL, there are a bunch of weak tight players waiting to be afraid of you. So go out there and instill fear into them! Play solid positional aggressive poker. Look for spots to raise and re-raise in position holding draws, marginal hands, etc etc.

Achieving that image cannot be done unless you yourself believe inside you possess that image. What you think about yourself inside reflects a lot on how people think about you. Again, this goes back to your mentality.

This type of image will also get you a lot of action too. You are in there building pots and people will give you action in return. You don’t care about that because if you play solid positional poker, you will have the advantage.

People will also give you their respect and fold to your bluffs or semi-bluffs. Don’t show down a losing hand.

But once your image has been shot to [censored]. You’ve been caught bluffing or people see you have been playing a lot of big pots lately and are starting to play back at you. It is time to tighten up a bit. You can slow down on the cont bets if you feel these guys will look you up with any 2 cards. You can also raise less in MP and UTG with marginal hands.

Once you feel you have been playing tight enough and showing a lot of aggression but also showing down big hands, you can then again loosen up and become more aggressive with marginal hands / bluffs.

That is changing gears. Reacting to your table dynamics and how you think people are observing you.

In conclusion, this article again covers the BASICS of what I have been talking about. Continue to go out there, post hands, discuss hands, observe hands. That’s what it takes to improve.

And when you are done a session or whatever. Review your hands, post them, analyze, observe etc etc etc. Lots of players are doing that right now, and they are improving.

Bah, I can review this a couple of times and make a better article but I’m really too lazy. The most important point in this article is your mentality. I can’t stress that enough. An aggressive mentality towards poker will continue to open countless opportunities, doors and $$ in the world of poker.

Some important reads:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5615820&an=0&page=0&vc=1

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...amp;o=&vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1825403&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&vc=1)

avfletch
11-10-2006, 03:42 PM
Brilliant article Tien, just like the last one!

thac
11-10-2006, 03:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping this would be in every article you wrote, glad you didn't let me down.

Good article though, sucks that you're leaving /images/graemlins/frown.gif

carnivalhobo
11-10-2006, 03:59 PM
nice post

dedmoney
11-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Haven't read it yet, but thanks tien, here's my avatar....enjoy!

Tien
11-11-2006, 02:19 AM
This article did not have as many ABC fundamental plays, but I truly believe that improving this area of poker is the most important thing a starting player can do to his / her game.

Tien
11-11-2006, 02:29 AM
hahahah, I just realized what a mess of an article it was.

I pity the fool that has to learn from it.

Supwithbates
11-11-2006, 03:22 AM
My problems with aggression happen when I play at loose passive tables. They'll limp/call a wide range and check/call whether they hit bottom pair, two pair, a draw, or a set, as well as a mixture of overcards because "they don't believe I hit the 952r flop so they call my cbet with A8." At some of these tables, I'd say I only take down the pot with a c-bet 1/3 of the time. My ability to handread against these players is completely shot and I lose confidence in my aggression when I'll raise AKo, whiff the flop, and they check/call. Is it worth it to try to get the donk to fold bottom pair or a draw by 3-barreling? I feel like c-betting these players is a losing proposition in the longrun, and I lose confidence in aggression at tables like this. What is your advice? At tight or aggressive tables I am probably aggressive, but when the table gets loose/passive I end up turning weak/tight, respecting their infrequent bets and quite frequent calls, etc. I value bet any pair, but I never try to c-bet whiffed pots etc. Is this wrong (especially if they're too donkish to notice I always have the goods when I bet?)

Tien
11-11-2006, 06:07 PM
When they call you all the time with bottom pair / midpair /floating of course you should fire less barrels with trash.

Thsoe are the perfect kind of fishes you want.

Bet hands that you hit.

I believe that you are dealing with a lot of variance. Don't lose confidence because you hit adversity a few times.

Tien
11-11-2006, 06:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
RAISE THAT [censored] UP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping this would be in every article you wrote, glad you didn't let me down.

Good article though, sucks that you're leaving /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I may do a think tank thread one of these days which I feel would give more direct help to players starting out.

SSNL players need the most help.

the_muppeteer
11-11-2006, 06:27 PM
Nice article, hope you change your mind and write more on postflop play /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tien
11-11-2006, 06:29 PM
That's the thing, I can't write an article on post flop play because there is so many variables to consider and I will most likely leave them out while writing the article. There isn't a ABC post flop guide. There is the "bet your hands hard when you hit" but that only improves you so far.

I think a think tank thread would help more.

Tien
11-11-2006, 09:12 PM
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.

Xanta
11-11-2006, 09:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi.

limit refugee
11-11-2006, 09:57 PM
So far you're 2 for 2 on kick butt articles that have changed my thinking down here. I am noting interest in your idea for a thied thread.

Tony Montana 22
11-11-2006, 10:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.


[/ QUOTE ]


Tien,

Thanks for the article, would love to see another!

Tien
11-11-2006, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I like helping you guys out.

The reason why I have so little posts was because I didn't want to give any advice out and help anybody.

Makes me happy helping strangers out for the first time in 1.5 years of poker.

Innocent Kitty
11-11-2006, 10:46 PM
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l4/bogdog_2006/MRT-Scripturist.jpg

iminurhead
11-12-2006, 12:08 PM
u know i do, write it. write that[censored] up.

iminurhead
11-12-2006, 12:12 PM
ok tien, write it, write that[censored] up!!!

Freelancer
11-12-2006, 12:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l4/bogdog_2006/MRT-Scripturist.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Tien
11-12-2006, 01:37 PM
Starting players have no idea how much this could help your games.

Some of these concepts have taken me literally months and months to learn and accept, and once I did learn and accept these concepts, my game changed dramatically for the better.

Freelancer
11-12-2006, 01:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Starting players have no idea how much this could help your games.

Some of these concepts have taken me literally months and months to learn and accept, and once I did learn and accept these concepts, my game changed dramatically for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I agree, people understimate the spychological aspects of this game. In reality poker is a battle against yourself, the other players are just there to donate.

King Spew
11-12-2006, 02:21 PM
Tien,,,, you are making an impact [thumbs up avatar please] Thank you!

Write that [CENSURED} up..... though there may not be any 'payback' for you other than warm fuzzy feelings about helping out yer fellow man, blah, blah, blah. I always find the 'global' threads MUCH more helpful than single strat posts like "I have TPTK OOP against a Donk"

Nologo
11-12-2006, 04:34 PM
I'd be interested in a thread like that.

Thanks for this article, Tien.

Tien
11-12-2006, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Starting players have no idea how much this could help your games.

Some of these concepts have taken me literally months and months to learn and accept, and once I did learn and accept these concepts, my game changed dramatically for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I agree, people understimate the spychological aspects of this game. In reality poker is a battle against yourself, the other players are just there to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more.

In fact, that phrase could and SHOULD be said about life as well.

Tien
11-12-2006, 05:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Tien,,,, you are making an impact [thumbs up avatar please] Thank you!

Write that [CENSURED} up..... though there may not be any 'payback' for you other than warm fuzzy feelings about helping out yer fellow man, blah, blah, blah. I always find the 'global' threads MUCH more helpful than single strat posts like "I have TPTK OOP against a Donk"

[/ QUOTE ]

My payback is in the form of happiness people get when someone receives that helping hand at the start of their poker careers that I rarely got.

I thought back and realized that if I read those 2 articles I just wrote.... My poker life would have been much less painful.

Marshall28
11-12-2006, 05:58 PM
i think what most of us need isnt that helping hand ... its that kick in the behind ...

Tien
11-12-2006, 06:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i think what most of us need isnt that helping hand ... its that kick in the behind ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Same thing. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

whodatdare
11-12-2006, 08:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely like to see something like this done. My PF game isn't really too bad, but I get lost in some post flop situations.

Vern
11-12-2006, 08:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.

[/ QUOTE ]

cjs
11-12-2006, 08:32 PM
I really like these.

Reid L
11-13-2006, 04:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]


I finally got around to writing this and will probably be the last one I write before I disappear from the online poker world altogether.



[/ QUOTE ]

That sucks. Because of the ban?

Freelancer
11-13-2006, 07:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Starting players have no idea how much this could help your games.

Some of these concepts have taken me literally months and months to learn and accept, and once I did learn and accept these concepts, my game changed dramatically for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I agree, people understimate the spychological aspects of this game. In reality poker is a battle against yourself, the other players are just there to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more.

In fact, that phrase could and SHOULD be said about life as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, its really amazing how poker can open your eyes. (although some might think I'm floating amongst the clouds now)

And yes make the other thread as well. Postflop is where the advantage can be found.

Tien
11-13-2006, 12:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I finally got around to writing this and will probably be the last one I write before I disappear from the online poker world altogether.



[/ QUOTE ]

That sucks. Because of the ban?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I live in Canada /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

More like personal reasons.

Tien
11-13-2006, 12:52 PM
Ok, I think I'll make one sometime this week if I'm not too lazy.

munkey
11-13-2006, 02:13 PM
Tien another great article.
I guess when I started out I would have skimmed this one and not properly read and digested it but I appreciate more now how important the pyschological aspects really are.

Good things come in threes -so a third article would be v. nice. If you wouldn't mind and can spare some time to help us uNLers and wouldn't mind you could always throw yourself in the Well before you have to depart?

P.S. I think your location should read "RAISE that [censored] up"

iminurhead
11-13-2006, 08:23 PM
NAG....NAG...,bring it, post that [CENSORED] up!!!

Echelon
11-14-2006, 05:47 AM
thanks for this, great article!

Tien
11-14-2006, 01:42 PM
Bumping this as well.

lorez
11-14-2006, 06:21 PM
Tien, very nice article again. I think munkey is right, a session in the well would be a fitting send off for you.

One question I have though with changing gears and playing to your table image. When is the best time to do this (do you gage this from experience) and also is this something to be worried about at the lower microlimits (where do you think the cut off is?)

VorShot
11-14-2006, 06:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If there is enough demand for that kind of thread.

Anyone who wants me to make a thread like that should post here so I can see how many people want one.

[/ QUOTE ]

ME ME!

b1grich
01-06-2007, 09:51 AM
Just finished reading this and now I'm not sure if he did that PF article/thread. Can anyone let me know ... thanks

Onyyn
02-09-2007, 03:06 PM
Love both of the first two write-ups. Has the 3rd been done?