What is the fastest and easiest way to build a bankroll online?

[Luzyfer]

Hello everyone,
About 2 months ago I deposited $75 into Party Poker and I have been playing the NL Holdem $0.02/$0.04 ring games entering with 50x the BB ($2). My goal is to turn $75 into $8,000 in about 5 months and play in the $2/$4 NL Holdem ring tables with $200 buy-in.
So far Ive been doing ok. The problem is that I find it too slow, and with the variance it gets slower. My question is how realistic is my goal? Ive heard a lot of people have done this. Is there a faster, easier way of building my bankroll from $75 to $8,000? Are Sit N Gos or MultiTable Tournaments better than ring games for reaching my goal?

[OneBigRed]

You are not doing yourself any favors by buying in short.

[AaronOC]

the best way to build your bankroll is to play within you bankroll and grind, grind, grind. You need to put in the hours if you want to succeed. I play the odd MTT with my cash winnings to break the boring grind

[Gorilla Boy]

[ QUOTE ]
the best way to build your bankroll is to play within you bankroll and grind, grind, grind. You need to put in the hours if you want to succeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[netstorm]

And start buying in for the full amount. You're giving up a buttload of EV when playing with fish.

[Rev. Good Will]

If your gonna buy in short, BUY IN SHORT. This 50bb buying in thing is nonsense, either play shortstacked, and buy in for 20-25bb, or buy in for the full amount. 50bb just seems like the worst of both worlds.

[InfectorGadget]

First of, welcome to the forum! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And second, read this (article by Pokey, why you shouldnt buy in short) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=microplnl&Number=7964709& Searchpage=1&Main=7964709&Words=+Pokey&topic=&Sear ch=true#Post7964709)

If you want to build a roll fast then I guess bonuswhoring is the way to go. Check out the 'Internet Bonuses' section on 2+2, you might get some advice from there.

Anyways, good luck!

[ChipStorm]

Luzyfer, my 2c:

* Cash games are probably at least as good an approach as SNGs or MTTs.

* Your $/hr earn rate at $0.02/$0.04 is going to be pathetic at best. If you're doing this as an exercise, good for you. But if you're doing it for the money, there are a million other real-world employment opportunities that will earn you more per hr than playing 4NL, and this will be true at least until you are multitabling 25NL.

* Whether your specific goal is attainable depends on how many tables you play and how many hrs/day you are prepared to devote. Apply some math. Assume a win rate (bb/100 hands), hands/hr/table, multitable count, hours/day, moving up at X buyins, and figure it out.

[Luzyfer]

Thanks for replying guys. This is the plan I have designed in order to reach my goal. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Buy-in (50x BB) / DailyTargetProfit (Multitabling in 3 tables) / TotalBankroll (40-50xBuyIns)/ No. Days to Reach Next Buy-In (In theory)
$2 (50x 0.04) / $5 / $100 / 20 days-
$5 (50x 0.10) / $12.5 / $200 / 24 days
$12.5 (50x 0.25) / $31.5 / $500 / 15 days
$25 (50x 0.50) / $63 / $1000 / 15 days
$50 (50x 1) / $126 / $2000 / 15 days
$100 (50x 2) / $252 / $4000 / 15 days
$200 (50x 4) / $504 / $8000 / 8 days
$300 (50x 6) / $756 / $12000

[mbz111]

you play on party, so you have the luxury of games other than poker. have you decided to have a go at this?

right here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4098030&an=&page=0&vc=1)

straight from el diablo, and i believe he is a reliable source.

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for replying guys. This is the plan I have designed in order to reach my goal. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Buy-in (50x BB) / DailyTargetProfit (Multitabling in 3 tables) / TotalBankroll (40-50xBuyIns)/ No. Days to Reach Next Buy-In (In theory)
$2 (50x 0.04) / $5 / $100 / 20 days-
$5 (50x 0.10) / $12.5 / $200 / 24 days
$12.5 (50x 0.25) / $31.5 / $500 / 15 days
$25 (50x 0.50) / $63 / $1000 / 15 days
$50 (50x 1) / $126 / $2000 / 15 days
$100 (50x 2) / $252 / $4000 / 15 days
$200 (50x 4) / $504 / $8000 / 8 days
$300 (50x 6) / $756 / $12000

[/ QUOTE ]
~2.5 buyins/day, or 250BB, or 125PTBB/day works if you assume +5PTBB/100hands * 3 tables * 100hands/hr/table (6max) * ~8 hrs/day. That math looks about right, but:

* 5PTBB/100 is optimistic for a shortstack strategy
* That's a lot of hours per day, and
* What will clobber you is moving up to face better players and sharpening your game in such a short time span.

Overall, I'd say this isn't realistic.

BalugaWhale has moved up as fast as anyone else I know of here; read his In The Well thread, near the top of the forum right now.

[Vammakala]

It's best to grind, unless you're a proficient player, you're sure as hell going to need the experience. And also in my experience, pulling a number like 5 months to NL200 outta your arse isn't going to make it easier. It's good to have goals but if you play within your roll with $75, you're PROBABLY going to need more than 5 months to succeed. Say you make buy-in a day, that means around 1 level / month. with $75 roll, you'd need to start with $5 buy-in games sooooo lets count the stages:
$5->$10->25->50->100->200. That's 6. And that assumes that you're more than marginally winning player and willing to play 1k hands a day or more.

I'd say just grind it out and move up with 20bi to the next level.

[Vammakala]

Plus, variance doesn't make the game slower. It's there in every form of poker, only you can be holding yourself back. It's the same variance for everyone and every game.

[dashman]

I hate to be mean, but this is very unrealistic, especially if you havent been playing that long. I think threads like this are roads to busto because you feel like you have to reach a specific goal and are missing the important things like learning the game, bankroll management, etc...take your time, don't rush it and do your homework just like all of us. It may be slow go at first but if you put the work/time in it will pay off in the end.
-This forum is awesome and you should utilize all it has to offer.

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]
you play on party, so you have the luxury of games other than poker. have you decided to have a go at this?

right here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4098030&an=&page=0&vc=1)

straight from el diablo, and i believe he is a reliable source.

[/ QUOTE ]
El Diablo's bankroll is probably 6-digit and $550 a big blind for him. You shouldn't try this with your bankroll dude.

But if you wanna gambool then of to the internet casino you go. Place your bankroll five times on the roulette and there you go.

[kabouter]

Go to BBV and find somebody who wants to flip.

Great you doubled up!

Now do it again! rinse and repeat $8000 in no time!

But seriously, what is up with people saying you should do bonus whoring, the only good bonus was the party poker bonus, for micro limits that is.

[redCashion]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for replying guys. This is the plan I have designed in order to reach my goal. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

Buy-in (50x BB) / DailyTargetProfit (Multitabling in 3 tables) / TotalBankroll (40-50xBuyIns)/ No. Days to Reach Next Buy-In (In theory)
$2 (50x 0.04) / $5 / $100 / 20 days-
$5 (50x 0.10) / $12.5 / $200 / 24 days
$12.5 (50x 0.25) / $31.5 / $500 / 15 days
$25 (50x 0.50) / $63 / $1000 / 15 days
$50 (50x 1) / $126 / $2000 / 15 days
$100 (50x 2) / $252 / $4000 / 15 days
$200 (50x 4) / $504 / $8000 / 8 days
$300 (50x 6) / $756 / $12000

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's dangerous to say "I will move up in X number of days" because it is going to force you into results oriented thinking and you will get frustrated if you fall behind schedule. What you should be thinking is how can I play the best poker I can play, logging in hours of play, and posting the hands that you had trouble with.

[eigenvalue]

I played chess in fromer times and I think I was very gifted there. But to become one of the best chess players in my district, it took something like 5 - 6 years of learning, experiencing.

Later I played the Japanese game of Go, the most difficult strategy game of this world. My experience in chess helped a lot, but once again it took 3 years and a strong Chinese mentor to reach a level of 1 dan.

Poker is not that complex than chess or Go, but it has some strategic depth, too. It's not an easy game to master.

Maybe someone his that gifted that he is at the moment one of the 10 most talented, but yet unknown players of the whole world. Maybe such a person could reach Your goal.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is how realistic is my goal?

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol... just, lol.

[pokerchap]

if u ahve $75 i would probably shortstack 10nl for a bit then buy in for the full. probably terrible BR management but im not patient enough to grind out 4NL for a month to win 20 bucks. lol

[carnivalhobo]

i didnt read the other resopnses, but bonus whoring is how i built my roll.

[Pavan]

betting on sports

[Spleen]

[ QUOTE ]
Go to BBV and find somebody who wants to flip.

Great you doubled up!

Now do it again! rinse and repeat $8000 in no time!

But seriously, what is up with people saying you should do bonus whoring, the only good bonus was the party poker bonus, for micro limits that is.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are tons of bonuses out there to take advantage of, especially if you are not in U.S.; If you are not taking advantage of bonus and r/b at any level you are costing yourself money. In my case it is easy to say the majority of my profits came from bonus whoring at early levels and I still rarely play w/o a bonus. I have recently moved from limit to Nl and have dropped in stakes. It still helps although it is considerably slower. Bonus whoring was fairly addicitve for me as well. It felt like I was actually making money playing poker lol.

Either flip for rolls or Keno is next best idea IMO. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]

~2.5 buyins/day


[/ QUOTE ]

Let's think about this 2.5 buyins per day for a minute.

Since he's referring to 50 BBs as a buyin, his daily vig is only half of what you're projecting, which makes it markedly more realistic. However:

2.5 x 50 BBs = 125 BBs per day. At:

$4NL, this is $5 per day.
$10NL, this is $12.50 per day.
$25NL, this is $31.25 per day.
$50NL, this is $62.50 per day.
$100NL, this is $125 per day.
$200NL, this is $250 per day.
$400NL, this is $500 per day.
$600NL, this is $750 per day.

Assuming hero plans to play 4 hours per day to make his vig, hero could do this faster and more safely by changing his game from "NL rounder" to "work at McDonald's." If you can clear $5 per hour at McD's, your winrate will be larger than it would at $4NL or $10NL. Spend 25 days playing "work at McDonald's," putting in 4 hours per day, and you'll clear $500, getting you fully funded for $25NL in about half the time. This puts you 19 days ahead of schedule, so that when you get to $600NL you'll win an extra $750 per day times 19 days, or $14,250, meaning your final bankroll will be over 150% larger than it would have been without this strategy. Considering that you're trying to maximize your earn in the next five months, I see no reason why you would stunt your growth so severely by giving up a chance to jump-start your bankroll.

Note: you might find the strategy less easy to accomplish than you think. Some people say that $600NL players are not just $4NL players with bigger bankrolls; rumor has it that they actually play the game better. The adjustment process might prove to be harder than you think.

[EMc]

How much is your roll now?

[Luzyfer]

During these past two months Ive read almost all the major poker authors, except Sklansky (which is next), so I cant say I have put as many hours as I would have liked.

EMcWilliams right now I am up $30 dollars (at $105), but considering this has been a learning time for me, I feel I could have done better during the time I have put have I known what I know now.

Pokey, thanks for the advice. Regarding your suggestion to start at NL25 in order to put myself ahead of schedule, I would like to build my bankroll gradually and get myself into NL25 with my winnings instead of buying myself there. I see the project as an experiment too. I was inspired by Chris Ferguson´s $1 into $20,000 at online poker story. He says that with time, proper bankroll management and discipline, it can be done. You guys can listen to his story at http://i.fulltiltpoker.com/images/ourTeam/audio/Pod02-Jesus-Bankroll.mp3

[Fuzzwah]

Great advice as usual Pokey /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I hope this thread lives forever.

[checkmate36]

[ QUOTE ]
Great advice as usual Pokey /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

The only constant thing that you can count on happening 100
% of the time with poker is that Pokey will make a good post that will help the newer players.

Everything else is frickin rigged!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif