AK, Really don't know how to play this TPTK hands...

[rename]

No reads on villian.

Probably played this all wrong. Think I should have bet more on the flop and fold to the river rais. And the Turn, I sure could be ahead here but this pot is starting to get big and I know TPTK dont really like that... wouls really like some input on all streets.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($111.37)
SB ($24.90)
BB ($37.65)
UTG ($17.54)
MP ($10.97)
Hero ($40.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.4</font>, Button calls $1.40, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $1.15, MP folds.

Flop: ($4.80) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, Button calls $3, UTG folds.

Turn: ($10.80) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, Button calls $6.

River: ($22.80) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $22</font>, Hero calls $11.

Final Pot: $66.80

[Gorilla Boy]

standard

[shpanko]

With the 3rd heart hitting and the Q hitting the river I'm tempted to c/c the turn. I like your bet size on the turn though. THe hand is well played but I'd rather c/c the river or bet/fold than bet/call.

Yes on the flop you should be betting close to pot. Aces aren't folding here ever and there are plenty of gutshots and heart draws that will call4 dollars to see the turn.

[kazana]

That river minraise just screams "I hit my flush on the turn, please call!"
You're getting 5-1, but I doubt you're good often enough to make the call worthwhile.

[AmonRaa]

River raise here is allways a better hand.

[Supwithbates]

Bet more on flop
Check/call turn
Re-evaluate on river... if he checked behind turn, 1/2 pot is good. Raise is tough with good potodds, but river minraises are almost never bluffs so it's a fold.

[maso]

bet more on flop like 4. fire a second barrel then check/call a less 1/2 pot sized bet.

[rename]

Really felt I was done after that river rais but somehow I convinced my self that those 5-1 pottodds was too good. In hindsight I think I like the c/c Turn and re-evaluate on the River line.

[Phytopath]

I don't mind c/c the turn or leading the turn like you did and C/C the river, as long as it is reasonable. Getting min-raised on the river means you are beat and I like you can lay it down most times. Getting such a good price though, I would call it against moderately aggressive players.

[kazana]

Okay, to all you guys saying bet more on the flop:
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same. Worse pairs aren't more likely to call a smaller bet, either.

So, unless you're willing to drop your hand immediately if a 3rd flush card hits, you're just ending up paying more and bloating the pot with a relatively weak holding. If you plan on betting again on a 3rd flush turn, then betting more on the flop is not helping you in any way. In fact, you've just increased any lucky flush' winning margin.

I prefer to rather bet less on flops like these OOP and to give up on the turn if the 3rd flush hits or check behind if possible.
If the turn blanks, and my hand still is only TPTK, maybe crank up the bet size a notch and repeat the procedure for river.
TPTK hands aren't the nuts, you've got to keep the pot size manageable.

[Shaddux]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
?

We aren't trying to make the draws fold.

[Shaddux]

I bet more on the flop and c/c a small river bet. I dump this to anything over 2/3 pot.

As played, fold river. Villain doesn't play AJ like this.

[Jay Riall]

Bet more on the flop. Turn I like, though check-calling is probably ok also. River is a clear check-call, maybe check-fold, you beat hardly anything here. Calling that minraise is burning money. What do you expect to see?

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, to all you guys saying bet more on the flop:
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same. Worse pairs aren't more likely to call a smaller bet, either.

[/ QUOTE ]This is an argument for betting more on the flop. Its about 4:1 for a /images/graemlins/heart.gif to hit on the turn. If FE is the same we make $6 Sklansky bucks by betting $1.50 more.


[ QUOTE ]
In fact, you've just increased any lucky flush' winning margin.

[/ QUOTE ]No, same concept as above. By betting $4.5 on the flop villain needs to win $13 (+$5 in pot already) on average when he hits to justify it. If we bet $3 then he only needs $7 more to justify it. So by betting just an extra $1.50 villain needs to win almost twice as much when he hits.

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, to all you guys saying bet more on the flop:
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same. Worse pairs aren't more likely to call a smaller bet, either.

[/ QUOTE ]
About the only draw that can be ahead of TPTK is a OESFD with two overcards. You want draws to pay more than they can make with their draw. You get fold equity against better hands than yours that might fold. On this flop you have little fold equity, but you have lots of hands, Ace worse kicker and draws that betting gives incorrect odds so when they continue you win money in the long run.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, to all you guys saying bet more on the flop:
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same. Worse pairs aren't more likely to call a smaller bet, either.

So, unless you're willing to drop your hand immediately if a 3rd flush card hits, you're just ending up paying more and bloating the pot with a relatively weak holding. If you plan on betting again on a 3rd flush turn, then betting more on the flop is not helping you in any way. In fact, you've just increased any lucky flush' winning margin.

I prefer to rather bet less on flops like these OOP and to give up on the turn if the 3rd flush hits or check behind if possible.
If the turn blanks, and my hand still is only TPTK, maybe crank up the bet size a notch and repeat the procedure for river.
TPTK hands aren't the nuts, you've got to keep the pot size manageable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this response. Just starting to play this game. I think pot control is important here as we only have one pair. Small hand, small pot. Make sure it's enough that they're making a mistake by calling the flop, but don't bloat as he said.

I bet about three on this flop too, get scared on the turn and check, though I hate doing it.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, to all you guys saying bet more on the flop:
I understand that you want to make flush draws pay more. But the bottom line is, hero's only got TPTK and draws will call just about any bet &lt;= pot size, so fold equity vs draws is the same. Worse pairs aren't more likely to call a smaller bet, either.

[/ QUOTE ]This is an argument for betting more on the flop. Its about 4:1 for a /images/graemlins/heart.gif to hit on the turn. If FE is the same we make $6 Sklansky bucks by betting $1.50 more.


[ QUOTE ]
In fact, you've just increased any lucky flush' winning margin.

[/ QUOTE ]No, same concept as above. By betting $4.5 on the flop villain needs to win $13 (+$5 in pot already) on average when he hits to justify it. If we bet $3 then he only needs $7 more to justify it. So by betting just an extra $1.50 villain needs to win almost twice as much when he hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say betting more on the flop is only okay if you're not going to pay him off when he hits. Having your opponent make the biggest mistake you can is great, but you can't give him the implied odds when he hits. Disappoint them when they hit.