TP and FD vs Large Turn Bet

[Badger83]

I've been mulling this one over for a little bit now and wonder if anybody can offer any guidance/thoughts.

No reads on villain except hasn't done anything too out of line.

PokerStars .02/.05 6 Max

SB (Hero): $8
BB: $5
UTG: $6
UTG+1: $9
CO: $3
Button: $12

Cards: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Pre-flop:

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button Calls, Hero raises to .25, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button Calls

Flop ($1.05, 4 players):

3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets .40, UTG calls .40, UTG+1 calls .40, Button raises to 2.50, Hero calls 2.10, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds

Turn ($6.85, 2 players):

4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, Button bets $6, Hero ?

[SnappyJoe]

I would have bet more preflop, atleast 0.35 and then I would have bet 3/4-full pot on the flop.

As played I think you're up against JJ+ or AQ and you don't beat any of those unless you hit your flush and he is not giving you the odds to hit it.

Fold imo.

[wcaines]

I would definately have bet more on the flop as well. But I think I would fold the flop to the button's big raise. Unless he is very aggressive, I don't see what we are beating here. I also agree that as played we fold the turn because we are most likely behind and don't have the odds to chase.

[Perk76]

Fold in this situation.

Your donk bet into him on the flop made this hand difficult. If you think your hand is good on the flop, bet 3/4 - pot, and base your next action on what the villan does there.

Your donk bet here looks way too much like trying to draw to a hand. He reraises to tell you not to draw on the flop.

As played, your check on the turn cost you a chance at seeing that river card for a decent price. I think you should of lead something on the turn to either make him push (which he might have), or slow him down if he can put you on a possible 2pair/set hand.

Sometimes 2 donk bets in a row can get a villan to sack off with overpairs, some villans use this as a flag and might let you see that last card.

[tiredjerk]

i don't see why you would bet out of position with 6 players in the hand. your hand is not very strong with all those limpers, and how do you play it when you miss? limping would also keep the pot small, which doesn't allow the button to raise enough to put that pressure on you. On the turn, button is representing a set, 2p, AQ.. However, he may have nothing at all. Would he limp with JJ, QQ or AQ even JQ in his position? Also, you bet fairly small on the flop, and everybody called. Maybe the button was just tryin to take advantage of his position after being shown weakness and followed through on the river seeing that you had less than a pot-sized bet left?
The way that the hand played out, I think I would have to call with about 5.75 left. If behind, I think its unlikely that you're drawing dead.

[HotdogPoker]

Button looks like he might have QJ or maybe 33. I definitely don't put him on JJ+ as I would have expected a raise to get rid of some of those limpers and cut the field down. As played, I would fold to the turn bet.

As an aside, if you're going to raise pre-flop with that many limpers, raise more. And bet more on the flop.

[Badger83]

Thanks for your thoughts, they have helped, although i have a confession in that I was the button and not the small blind in this hand (with J /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif btw).

I have been mulling over my play throughout this hand as it seems to be a problem I face quite a lot, namely how to extract value from good, but not great hands whilst not giving the odds to people to draw whilst also being concerned about being trapped.

In this hand i felt a large flop raise was necessary, as i didnt want to play against 3 others when any A,K,T,9 could make the hand potentially very dangerous. After the SB called the flop raise i had to put him on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AQ or KQ.

With the /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the turn i had to be additionally concerned about a flush, though i thought it unlikley.

On the turn i was in a bit of a dilema, as i saw it i was ahead of AA, KK, AQ and KQ and behind to QQ and JJ, how much would be a good amount to bet on the turn?

[tiredjerk]

so you made up a hand for what you thought SB had and had us try to figure out your play? i don't see how you helped yourself..

[Perk76]

The button (you) bet pot which is fine with top 2.

[Badger83]

I know the SB had KQs, because he showed it down.

Sorry if i ended up confusing the issue, but I was interested in looking at this from both sides, not only what I should do in this situation, but what the bets I made represent to the average player at this level and also what they mean he should do (if playing correctly).

[SnappyJoe]

Ok, then I would change my advice and tell you not to openlimp with two limpers before you and two players left to act behind you.