over-complimicating a simple one

[limit refugee]

Shortstack is a shortstack...bit of an idiot...knew he would call whatever i bet. I only had a few hands on the button...seemed better than average.

Afterwards, I didn't like the size of my flop reraise, for some reason this one is bothering me...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($53.90)
MP ($9.70)
CO ($8.45)
Button ($25.25)
SB ($32.40)
Hero ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.10) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $3.25</font>, CO folds, Button calls $3.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero...

[ChipStorm]

After MP raises, you need to get it in. You don't want to see another /images/graemlins/heart.gif and face the possibility of the A beating you, and that could be either MP or BTN, who covers.

The pot is already a decent size, and your hand isn't getting any better, only others' are. Easy push.

[ATrain]

Question: What kinds of hands would limp preflop and raise/call this flop? A smaller flush? The nutflush obviously. The naked A/images/graemlins/heart.gif? A weirdly played set?

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
Question: What kinds of hands would limp preflop and raise/call this flop? A smaller flush? The nutflush obviously. The naked A/images/graemlins/heart.gif? A weirdly played set?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, yes, yes, yes, + two pair + TPGK

[limit refugee]

I did push, without much thinking, but I think it was a mistake...I'm pretty sure I learned something from this hand.

Is a push best considering i feel the MP will call anysize bet and I would like to maximize value yet not give good odds aginst the button? Anybody?

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
Is a push best considering i feel the MP will call anysize bet and I would like to maximize value yet not give good odds aginst the button? Anybody?

[/ QUOTE ]
A push is best because if you don't, there are 6.02e23 turn cards that will leave your privates waving in the breeze, wondering what to do. How good will you feel about waiting to the turn to push if it brings another /images/graemlins/heart.gif? If it pairs the board?

Your hand doesn't want to see any more cards. Get the money in right now. Let the set, two pair, or dry A/images/graemlins/heart.gif make the mistake of calling you.

[ymu]

It's not a mistake to push here - you have to push here. If you got beaten or they all folded, it's bad luck - not a bad play.

[limit refugee]

No, I won. MP called and button folded just like I thought I wanted...But by pushing it seems like i gave the button the proper odds to call if he had the Ah.

If I raised to say 10 bucks, I still would have gotten MP all in and given the button 2.5-1 to draw, crap odds...also an amount that he may not fold a straight draw which is also a possibility. Since my main worry was button having a Ah, wouldn't breaking the bet up in two (with a push on the turn) keep him drawing incorrectly while maximizing the money I get out of him?

[Yaboosh]

You aren't worrying that the Button has the Ah, you are HOPING the button has the Ah.

And no, giving him a free look at the turn is not a smart move.

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
If I raised to say 10 bucks, I still would have gotten MP all in and given the button 2.5-1 to draw, crap odds...also an amount that he may not fold a straight draw which is also a possibility. Since my main worry was button having a Ah, wouldn't breaking the bet up in two (with a push on the turn) keep him drawing incorrectly while maximizing the money I get out of him?

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's the problem: You make it 10, MP calls, BTN calls with "bad" odds, pot is now about $30, right? /images/graemlins/heart.gif falls on the turn, BTN bets $5. What are you going to do, with 2nd nuts getting 7:1? Fold?

I don't think I could. Even your $10 flop bet gets you effectively committed for the rest of your stack -- but it will feel slimy putting it in later when the wrong cards hit, and the pot is sweet enough already that taking it down now isn't so bad; so you want to put it in now.

[Slava_sky]

goes over the top.

[ymu]

If you raise to $10, he has to call $6.75 into a $25.05 pot which easily gives him the direct odds to call with Ah -let alone implied odds.

You then have $14.05 left to bet into a $31.80 pot - which does price him out for the river, but only just.

You need to raise to more than $10 to deny him the correct implied odds on the flop. He stands to win the $11.85 in the pot plus the rest of your stack and the rest of MPs stack = £38.10 total. So you need to charge him at least $9.50 on top of his $3.75 to force a small FTOP error - you can't raise to less than £12.25.

If he calls this, he makes a small mistake and if he misses the turn, you can't deny him the correct odds to see the river because you have too little behind - you only have $11.80 to bet into a $35 pot.

Pushing does give him the correct odds to see two more cards - but you don't really have any other options. Neither of you are deep-stacked enough.

[limit refugee]

I dig...as i was getting all frustrated with this one stupid hand, i realized i was doing my maths wrong anyhow.

Works out...I like pushing, I usually push, and I'll keep pushing in the future...beats trying to outsmart myself.