Was I just mentally disturbed?

[Lestat]

I always find it interesting when someone posts about not being able to find meaning in life and theists bring up religion and god. I was just the opposite.

As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was? Why is it that you find such joy in religion and I found depression? Was I not praying correctly? Did I have a bad repoire with God? What? Why did it take becoming an atheist (or realizing that there was no god), before the world starting making sense to me? I was at first very sad to figure out that there was no god or life after death and a place called heaven. But eventually the greyness lifted as I became comfortable in my new understanding of the world.

It's a serious question. What was my problem? Why was I different?

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
I always find it interesting when someone posts about not being able to find meaning in life and theists bring up religion and god. I was just the opposite.

As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was? Why is it that you find such joy in religion and I found depression? Was I not praying correctly? Did I have a bad repoire with God? What? Why did it take becoming an atheist (or realizing that there was no god), before the world starting making sense to me? I was at first very sad to figure out that there was no god or life after death and a place called heaven. But eventually the world brightened up to me as I became comfortable in my new understanding of the world.

It's a serious question. What was my problem? Why was I different?

[/ QUOTE ]
Think back to your schooling:

How much of it was biblical? How much was just tradition?

Or your church/school leaders:

Was their leadership biblical? Or were they outside God's will?

Just a thought. Sometimes you don't see God by looking at God's people.

And that's sad. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[carlo]

You should consider that what you experienced was your own soul tone(darkness) in which you passed through(worked your way out of?). You probably and justifiably had an antipathy to this religion(or it's advocates) but to conclude that "they did it to me" should be reevualated.

Interested in the age(s) of beginning and end. Age 7-14 children are looking for authority but it has to have some substance. At puberty antagonistic and antipathetic behavior rears up but not very thoughtful.

And no, you were not mentally disturbed but be careful who you see for at the last pop newsreel psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed and need Prozac. /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif.

[Lestat]

Thanks Carlo.

I don't mean to "blame" the nuns and priests for my depression. It was just the way I intrepreted Catholism in general. My own personal view. The angels, exodus, etc. I also had a lot of death in my family when I was young. So I went to a lot of funerals and found them depressing as well. Not just the loss of family members but all the sermons and everything. Even the pipe organs which played during mass gave me a creepy feeling.

[Lestat]

I don't blame anyone. I just found the religion itself very depressing. I even found the songs/hymms sung in church depressing. I found the Catholic teachings depressing. I found armageddon depressing. I found the bible depressing. I never saw a bright sunny future through religion.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did it take becoming an atheist (or realizing that there was no god), before the world starting making sense to me?

[/ QUOTE ]
You may have have been in the initial stages of this reaction ... from an old Sklansky post -

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is with those who think that their religious beliefs should appear highly reaonable to an objective intelligent observer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't comment on the depression part but anyone that has a natural inquisitive and analytical bend is going to run into the 'make sense' wall pretty hard.

luckyme

[surftheiop]

Just remember, alot of "Christians" arent followers of Jesus.

Alot of "christian churches" arent Biblical.

And throughout history Catholics have been amazingly un-christian.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
Just remember, alot of "Christians" arent followers of Jesus.


[/ QUOTE ]

in what ways?..

I hope you are not implying that these two

[ QUOTE ]
Just remember, alot of "Christians" arent followers of Jesus.

Alot of "christian churches" arent Biblical.


[/ QUOTE ]

are the same..

[CityFan]

Putting aside for now the question of whether theism or atheism is "corect" - I think it's entirely possible that had you been brougth up an atheist you would have "found" God at some stage in your life, with the same results.

Why do I say that? Well, perhaps the Christian world view that you were brought up into wasn't very appealing, and through your conversion to atheism you've been able to define a world view of your own that fixes the problems in the old one and makes sense of your personal dilemmas.

Had you been born an atheist, maybe a conversion to Christianity would have afforded the same opportunity: you could build a model of Christianity that answered the important questions and made sense of the things that bothered you, filling the holes that your childhood atheism left unplugged.

Of course, I'm not really addressing OP as I don't know him/her from Adam; but perhaps what a lot of people need at the end of their childhood/adolescence is to break free from the rules and absolutes of their youth, and find thier own philosophy that makes sense of the things they see around them, and that they can carry through into their adult life.

In some ways it doesn't matter whether that philosophy is a religious one or not: what matters is that it makes sense to the individual.

Myself, I went through a brief "religious" experience at the age of 23 (but ultimately rationalised it as a non-religious emotional revelation) that led me to a personal philosophy which is probably atheist, possibly moral, but far more fulfilling than the narrow minded moral-atheist system I was brought up by.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

[madnak]

I had a similar experience. I was rather miserable through my childhood, and religious. Txag has been kind enough to inform me that the reason I was miserable when I was religious is because I was full of sin, and the reason I'm less miserable now is because I've, let's see, because I've turned away from God and stopped acknowledging the sin in me? I can't quite remember.

We all know txag is right about this, but let's pretend he isn't.

You could have been miserable for many reasons. Religion actually is correlated with happiness, but not very strongly. What else correlates with happiness? A stable family life, sufficient quantities of neurotransmitters, the absence of trauma... It's really a big question.

The phenomenon you're talking about is depression. Whether or not you "had depression" is irrelevant - the point is you weren't as happy as some other people. Many Christians claim that religion made them happy, so it's natural for you to look at what part of religion had that effect on them. But research indicates religion isn't really what makes them happy at all - or if it is, there are secular influences that can do the same thing. In fact, atheists are even capable of achieving heights of spiritual experience through meditation, etc, just as readily as religious people.

Just because a person attributes his happiness to his religion, doesn't mean that attribution is valid.

If you were unhappy, chances are that one of four things happened.

1. Family trouble. Did your parents divorce? Were they abusive? (Rhetorical, I'm not prying)
2. Trauma. Did something awful happen to you when you were young? Or did you frequently find yourself in stressful environments (when I speak of "trauma," I'm not necessarily referring to an all-at-once thing).
3. Broken brain. Due to biological factors, you may not produce the chemical precursors of happiness in the "right way." Really there's no right way, there's some variance from human to human - it's possible you're just on the depressed "end" of that variance.

[CityFan]

I'll have a 1, a 2 and probably a 3 as well please Bob!

Oh well, at least they gave me a brain and a healthy body.

What was four, btw?

[madnak]

Demonic possession.

[CityFan]

Nah. It's bad enough they put ME in charge!

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]

As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was?

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some flawed humans behaving negatively toward you and you attributed those behaviors to God and your religion.

As an adult you have the option to re evaluate and understand that the way a priest(s), nun(s), your parents, whoever present an idea to you (such as a religion) is not the idea itself (or the religion).

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't blame anyone. I just found the religion itself very depressing. I even found the songs/hymms sung in church depressing. I found the Catholic teachings depressing. I found armageddon depressing. I found the bible depressing. I never saw a bright sunny future through religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you find the beach or vacations if every time since as long as you can remember people were frowning and depressed and angry when going to the beach or on vacation? What if the beach and vacation representatives yelled at you when you were a kid? What if they told you the being in charge of the beach and vacations was someone you should be afraid of?

[surftheiop]

They are the same, how else could a group be followers of Jesus without using his teachings and God's inspired word?

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
They are the same, how else could a group be followers of Jesus without using his teachings and God's inspired word?

[/ QUOTE ]

because not all christians believe that the bible is..

1)the inerrant word of god

or even

2)the bible is even close to the word of god

and if you are going to say...but jesus said that it is the word of god...please think first

[surftheiop]

Ok if not for the Bible how do they learn anything of the teachings of Jesus? sure other documents tell of his physical existence but if not the Bible what do they base their religon on ?

[Lestat]

I think we're getting somewhere...

Yes, God was presented to me more as an entity to be feared. I guess I made a funny face once in front of a nun. She told me that if I didn't stop, God would freeze my face that way forever.

I'm just curious how those like txag, NotReady, BluffThis, RJT, et al., came to find religion as a thing of bliss and happiness and something to look forward to. When all I found was doom and gloom? Is it because they are grew up in a different era than me (this occured in the late 60's and 70's for me). I think it's interesting. I guess I rebel and become depressed by what I fear, while others are able to not only tow the line, but relish in it.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't blame anyone. I just found the religion itself very depressing. I even found the songs/hymms sung in church depressing. I found the Catholic teachings depressing. I found armageddon depressing. I found the bible depressing. I never saw a bright sunny future through religion.

[/ QUOTE ]


Sounds like the school (s) you attended weren’t so hot. My Catholic education K-8, then 9-12 and University was always a pretty good experience. (Btw, I am a few years older than even you, Stat. Just turned 50 last week. -You want to talk about depressing!) Religion was always placed in perspective, that is, it didn’t “infiltrate” science, math, etc. I always attended co-ed schools, fwiw. Never really had any “mean” nuns or priests, some where a bit strict, sure -some jerks, but you get that with lay folk, too. The majority of my teachers where lay people.

Some of the ceremonies (rites), hymns, traditions can be quite beautiful. I can’t really say if it is you or your particular Catholic environment. Like you say, could be all the death you had as a kid. My dad died when I was 29 - -he was my first “close” relative to die. Sure had tons of distant folk that I “had to” attend services for. So, it is hard for me to see things from your perspective there.


Out of curiosity, do you find philosophy interesting?

After we discuss your particular question, I’d like to continue with your thought about “…But eventually the greyness lifted as I became comfortable in my new understanding of the world.”

[Lestat]

I didn't mean this to be about psychology, but you're probably right.

I'm mostly interested in why my philosophy about religion turned out to be the opposite of others.

Basically, I was taught that God was to be feared and as a kid who believed there really was a god at the time, it made perfect sense to me from all that I've heard about him.

Even heaven wasn't very appealing to me (although it was better than hell). There's something about spending an eternity in ANY SINGLE place that's depressing to me.

And what about the music? Nowadays they've spruced it up and many churches even have guitars. But when I was a kid it was all these minor and dimished chords from a a deep and morose sounding pipe organ.

I'm mainly interested in how two normal people can come away with such different perspectives. Maybe this should've been posted in the psychology section.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we're getting somewhere...

Yes, God was presented to me more as an entity to be feared. I guess I made a funny face once in front of a nun. She told me that if I didn't stop, God would freeze my face that way forever.

I'm just curious how those like txag, NotReady, BluffThis, RJT, et al., came to find religion as a thing of bliss and happiness and something to look forward to. When all I found was doom and gloom? Is it because they are grew up in a different era than me (this occured in the late 60's and 70's for me). I think it's interesting. I guess I rebel and become depressed by what I fear, while others are able to not only tow the line, but relish in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone is different. Why is is some people find that a piece of chocolate is bliss and others are allergic to it?

I was raised catholic in the 70's and early 80's (no catholic school but CCD and church on sundays). The main things that left an impression on me were not the nuns or the priests but the way my family presented God and religion to me. Why was I afraid of God?... gee I wonder if it had anything to do with my drunken jeckel grandmother terroriszing me in God's name (screaming "Your going to hell!", etc while pulling my hair and other such wonderful experiences) lol

At the time I accepted this as fact- it must be true because my grandmother says it- I'm 5yrs old and accept whatever my parents/those raising me tell me. As an adult I can reason that my grandmother was disturbed and did not speak for God. I don't blame God or the catholic church for my grandmothers behavior but her behavior did skew my perceptions of both.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok if not for the Bible how do they learn anything of the teachings of Jesus? sure other documents tell of his physical existence but if not the Bible what do they base their religon on ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) I didn't say that they don't believe that the bible is at least in some way inspired by god

2) even if #1 weren't true..the answer is.......

c'mon, you know you can do it...one word, five letters, you claim that you use it anyway...why not for this..it is just as rational (irrational?)..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.FAITH

[RJT]

Your question is a good one. First we have to try to figure out how much of your, let’s use the word, “distain” (insert another word if you think that is too harsh) for the Catholic Religion comes from inside yourself and how much comes from your particular “brand” of those who taught you.

In other words - had you and I attended all the same classes together - -would you still feel “distain”? Would you still be atheist ( I think probably yes to this one)? Or would you simply be an atheist who thinks - nice idea, but I’ll pass on the God/Jesus thing.

No point in talking about this in the shrink forum - - I think a lot of us know each other better here and makes more senses to talk in SMP.

[kurto]

An atheist cannot answer your question. For a belief in religion, I think, mirrors the mentally disturbed.

I just quoted this from the charming "whydoesgodhateamputees"

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever thought about how bizarre the crucifixion story is? Imagine the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven. He looks down onto earth and says to himself:

Those evil humans down on earth. I hate what they are doing. All this sin...
Since I am all-knowing I know exactly what the humans are doing and I understand exactly why they commit each sin. Since I created the humans in my own image and personally programmed human nature into their brains, I am the direct author of all of this sin. The instant I created them I knew exactly what would happen with every single human being right down to the nanosecond level for all eternity. If I didn't like how it was going to turn out, I could have simply changed them when I created them. And since I am perfect, I know exactly what I am doing. But ignore all that. I hate all these people doing exactly what I perfectly designed them to do and knew they would do from the moment I created them...

So here's what I am going to do. I will artificially inseminate a virgin. She will give birth to an incarnated version of me. The humans will eventually crucify and kill the incarnated me. That will, finally, make me happy. Yes, sending myself down and having the humans crucify me -- that will satisfy me. I feel much better now.

It makes no sense, does it? Why would an all-knowing being need to have humans kill himself (Jesus is God, after all) to make himself happy? Especially since it is a perfect God who set the whole thing in motion exactly the way he wanted it? The whole story of the crucifixion is absurd from top to bottom if you actually stop to think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[surftheiop]

FAITH in what?

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
FAITH in what?

[/ QUOTE ]

anyting..faith in all things is equal..it could even be things with ZERO evidence...that's what's great about faith, it doesn't need evidence.

here specifically, it would be faith that certain things that they believe that are true of god (and jesus) are true..

EDIT: I think you are inadvertently pointing out why faith is so ridiculous /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
...After we discuss your particular question, I’d like to continue with your thought about “…But eventually the greyness lifted as I became comfortable in my new understanding of the world.”

[/ QUOTE ]

Stat,

I think we can talk more about this in JohnnyH's thread about food turning to sh..

I have to go to dinner (ironic, isn't it - lol) for a few hours. Check that thread later if you will. I think it is an intersting topic.

RJT

[surftheiop]

I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[carlo]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to "blame" the nuns and priests for my depression. It was just the way I intrepreted Catholism in general. My own personal view. The angels, exodus, etc. I also had a lot of death in my family when I was young. So I went to a lot of funerals and found them depressing as well. Not just the loss of family members but all the sermons and everything. Even the pipe organs which played during mass gave me a creepy feeling.



[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't blame anyone. I just found the religion itself very depressing. I even found the songs/hymms sung in church depressing. I found the Catholic teachings depressing. I found armageddon depressing. I found the bible depressing. I never saw a bright sunny future through reli

[/ QUOTE ]

The truth is that there is an overlay of darkness in the Catholic religion which is apparent in the music(anyone ever play a happy organ?), ritual(this is serious stuff-no jopkes here) and catechism(sin). So you picked up on this "dark side" which is not hard to do. This does not negate the message-another story.

If this were a healing event then I'd say an estrangement of self from the outside world were in order. This is another way of saying that one shouldn't accept and live within a mileu passively. It looks like you did just this. Extracted yourself from the situation by strengthening your individuality. I won't say ergo your atheism for it's more complex and real than an abstraction of thought. Continue the fight.

By the by,this putative happiness(nirvana?) on earth is an illusion and if offered such, run away quickly.

[CityFan]

[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, I guess you are implying that there was a strawman somewhere in there..but I didn't even say what your position was, so I don't know how that could be true..please point it out if you think there is one...there's really no room for one though /images/graemlins/confused.gif, what am I missing?

I never said that you had "ZERO" evidence for your belief..and I wouldn't say that, because I don't believe it.

I would say that the faith portion of that belief is equal to the faith portion of any belief...

it is the evidence in your belief that may be greater than that for other options..

now if you have any actual issue with my argument, please point it out..so far you have just asked questions and haven't refuted anything, so I assume you accept it.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[/ QUOTE ]

even I admit that there is MUCH more evidence than that

[CityFan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[/ QUOTE ]

even I admit that there is MUCH more evidence than that

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but the point remains valid. It is not hard to take real facts and construct a fictional story around them.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[/ QUOTE ]

even I admit that there is MUCH more evidence than that

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but the point remains valid. It is not hard to take real facts and construct a fictional story around them.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, it's not just about real facts though, it's about more "unbiased" accounts of things that are specific to chrsitianity..miracles perhaps...

obviously I don't think this evidence is very strong, but there is certainly much more than you seemed to imply in your first post about this..

although you were probably just trying to make your point, and you did..I don't know why I would expect a long list or something...that was my fault

[CityFan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[/ QUOTE ]

even I admit that there is MUCH more evidence than that

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but the point remains valid. It is not hard to take real facts and construct a fictional story around them.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, it's not just about real facts though, it's about more "unbiased" accounts of things that are specific to chrsitianity..miracles perhaps...

obviously I don't think this evidence is very strong, but there is certainly much more than you seemed to imply in your first post about this..

although you were probably just trying to make your point, and you did..I don't know why I would expect a long list or something...that was my fault

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've yet to see the historical evidence for walking on water, if that's what you mean /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have faith that the Bible is true, many events in the Bible are also recorded other places meaning my Faith in it has an amount of evidence > 0.

I think your inadvertently pointing out why straw man arguements are so ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there was indeed a King Herod and there is indeed a country called Egypt. Erm...

[/ QUOTE ]

even I admit that there is MUCH more evidence than that

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but the point remains valid. It is not hard to take real facts and construct a fictional story around them.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, it's not just about real facts though, it's about more "unbiased" accounts of things that are specific to chrsitianity..miracles perhaps...

obviously I don't think this evidence is very strong, but there is certainly much more than you seemed to imply in your first post about this..

although you were probably just trying to make your point, and you did..I don't know why I would expect a long list or something...that was my fault

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I've yet to see the historical evidence for walking on water, if that's what you mean /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

no, just that there is evidence..probably not for something that big, and probably not all that reliable, but evidence nonetheless

[CityFan]

To be honest, I'm no historian. I've heard some people say that there is real historical proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed. Then, I've seen TV programmes where they claim that all so-called evidence of this man's existence has turned out to be fake.

Do I know which is right? No. If Jesus of Nazareth existed and really did go around preaching to disciples, and really was arrested and crucified in Jerusalem, do I count that as evidence to support Christianity?

NO.

Maybe there was this groovy guy who said some cool things about people being nice to each other and [censored] the establishment and that, and they hung him up because that's what they did with people like that, but the claims made about him by Christianity are CLEARLY* MADE UP.

*To my mind.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
And no, you were not mentally disturbed but be careful who you see for at the last pop newsreel psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably true.

[ QUOTE ]
and need Prozac.

[/ QUOTE ]

DEFINATELY false. It's like curing an alcohol addiction by getting hooked on morphine instead.

[carlo]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And no, you were not mentally disturbed but be careful who you see for at the last pop newsreel psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Probably true.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and need Prozac.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



DEFINATELY false. It's like curing an alcohol addiction by getting hooked on morphine instead.

Post Extras:


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread my post. I find it horrifying that some bean counter would say that 50-70% of Americans are depressed. Bad stats and business driven medicine. Your right, don't take the Prozac. The whole deal is terrifying. Anti depressants are adviterised on TV as being the answer to all of lifes difficulties. Many in the medical p[rofession are against these ads which skip the diagnostic stage and lead the patient into a false sense of what is right.

Of course there are people who need this type of help but the stats boys are the fronts for the drug companies.

[Jasper109]

[ QUOTE ]
psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed and need Prozac.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm of the opinion that these are the rational people that have finally clued in to the absurdity of everything.

The rest that are "happy" are just delusional, brainwashed, or just basically too dumb to realize what is going on.

[carlo]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed and need Prozac.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm of the opinion that these are the rational people that have finally clued in to the absurdity of everything.

The rest that are "happy" are just delusional, brainwashed, or just basically too dumb to realize what is going on.

Post Extras:


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was?

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some flawed humans behaving negatively toward you and you attributed those behaviors to God and your religion.

As an adult you have the option to re evaluate and understand that the way a priest(s), nun(s), your parents, whoever present an idea to you (such as a religion) is not the idea itself (or the religion).

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some kind individuals behaving generously to you and you attributed this to God and their religion.

Yep, it makes just as much sense that way around.

[vhawk01]

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And no, you were not mentally disturbed but be careful who you see for at the last pop newsreel psychiatrists believe that 50-70% of Americans are depressed


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Probably true.


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and need Prozac.


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DEFINATELY false. It's like curing an alcohol addiction by getting hooked on morphine instead.

Post Extras:


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread my post. I find it horrifying that some bean counter would say that 50-70% of Americans are depressed. Bad stats and business driven medicine. Your right, don't take the Prozac. The whole deal is terrifying. Anti depressants are adviterised on TV as being the answer to all of lifes difficulties. Many in the medical p[rofession are against these ads which skip the diagnostic stage and lead the patient into a false sense of what is right.

Of course there are people who need this type of help but the stats boys are the fronts for the drug companies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of what you find horrifying, its still entirely possible. Are you one of these people who says "Well, if 80% of Americans are obese, then really its 20% who are underweight! HAHAAHAHAH!"? There is no minimum or maximum number of people who can be depressed, and depression is a real condition with real symptoms and real negative outcomes. Sorry if this offends you or your sense of what people as a whole are like.

[carlo]

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Regardless of what you find horrifying, its still entirely possible. Are you one of these people who says "Well, if 80% of Americans are obese, then really its 20% who are underweight! HAHAAHAHAH!"? There is no minimum or maximum number of people who can be depressed, and depression is a real condition with real symptoms and real negative outcomes. Sorry if this offends you or your sense of what people as a whole are like.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not offended just amazed that you would think something up and consider this reality. "Possibility" is the big bull shiit.My understanding of these things is factual and speaks to powerful currents in our American life.

Depression can be a life negating experience,is saddening,and and is of the deepest concern. The stats boys and business interests turn it into a frivolous romp into a world of abject fantasy. They don't care. Only individuals care and I don't mean corporations.

[bkholdem]

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As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was?

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some flawed humans behaving negatively toward you and you attributed those behaviors to God and your religion.

As an adult you have the option to re evaluate and understand that the way a priest(s), nun(s), your parents, whoever present an idea to you (such as a religion) is not the idea itself (or the religion).

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some kind individuals behaving generously to you and you attributed this to God and their religion.

Yep, it makes just as much sense that way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a child goes to school where a foreign idea is presented to him by cruel individuals, he is more likely to attribute those traits to the foreign idea. That is as simple as ABC. it is silly to disagree.

[madnak]

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As a kid and practicing Catholic, I found the world very disturbing and grey. I thought my religion was morose and I found nothing to exalt in or feel happy about. I always had a gloomy feeling about the world in general.

I should say that I'm probably a bit older than some of the theists on here. When I was a kid, Catholic school wasn't such a happy and care free place. I remember the day father Gregory came into our class yelling at everyone for no reason (or very little reason), and telling me to wipe the smile off my face or he'd wipe it off for me. But I'm too young to remember anyone hitting kids with rulers, etc.

So can some theist tell me what my problem was?

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some flawed humans behaving negatively toward you and you attributed those behaviors to God and your religion.

As an adult you have the option to re evaluate and understand that the way a priest(s), nun(s), your parents, whoever present an idea to you (such as a religion) is not the idea itself (or the religion).

[/ QUOTE ]

You had some kind individuals behaving generously to you and you attributed this to God and their religion.

Yep, it makes just as much sense that way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a child goes to school where a foreign idea is presented to him by cruel individuals, he is more likely to attribute those traits to the foreign idea. That is as simple as ABC. it is silly to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if the idea is presented by gentle or confident individuals, he's likely to attribute those traits to the idea.

He's not disagreeing with you, he's pointing out that you're making a great argument against Christianity.

[bkholdem]

So his: yep, it makes just as much sense the other way around was not a flippant criticism saying 'your post does not make sense'?

[madnak]

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So his: yep, it makes just as much sense the other way around was not a flippant criticism saying 'your post does not make sense'?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it was pointing out that the converse applies equally. You suggest that Lestat hates Christianity because of external factors, vhawk suggests that by that reasoning you like Christianity due to external factors.

In other words, your reasoning makes just as much sense the other way around.

[bkholdem]

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So his: yep, it makes just as much sense the other way around was not a flippant criticism saying 'your post does not make sense'?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it was pointing out that the converse applies equally. You suggest that Lestat hates Christianity because of external factors, vhawk suggests that by that reasoning you like Christianity due to external factors.

In other words, your reasoning makes just as much sense the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then his assumption about ME would be false. I do agree that ONE would like it-all other things being equal-if it is presented by cheerful and supportive people.

This will not happen to everyone (bad outlook when presented by boorish, self rightgeous, angry people...good outlook when presented by well balanced, happy people) but more will not like it when learned in the former enviornment and more will like it when learned in the ladder.

[madnak]

I agree with that. It was presented to me by well-balanced, happy people and I still found it horrifying.

[bkholdem]

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I agree with that. It was presented to me by well-balanced, happy people and I still found it horrifying.

[/ QUOTE ]

what are some of your fondest memories of the happy, well balanced people you learned it from;?

[madnak]

That's a very personal question, isn't it? Some of the best memories of my childhood, some of the only good memories of my childhood. That's a very painful question.

[FortunaMaximus]

Hmm. Dozens of replies, and I don't think it's been brought up yet how significant a factor the faith and the opinions of your own parents and how they brought those opinions across contributed to your uneasiness and dislike of Catholic school.

I think that's significant, although probably a little too personal in context with the discussion.

[bkholdem]

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That's a very personal question, isn't it? Some of the best memories of my childhood, some of the only good memories of my childhood. That's a very painful question.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I am sure you can set aside the pain you reference and share with us the joy you experienced from the happy people who taught you religion that were part of your life as a child.

When were they most happy? Were some super happy and maybe a few of those people stand out more than the average since they were all well balanced and happy?

What do you think made them happy?

What was it about them that made you know they were well balanced and happy?