Will Christians bring about the end of the world?

[CaseS87]

I could be wrong, but isn't the sign of Jesus' second coming and Rapture, Armageddon? In the future I could see a political figure who was a devout and extreme Christian trigger a nuclear (or whatever crazy weapons we have in the future) war in hopes that it would bring about the Rapture.

This was not meant to be a Christian bashing post necessarily, but I've always believed that if the human race does die out, religion will be directly involved.

[51cards]

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This was not meant to be a Christian bashing post necessarily, but I've always believed that if the human race does die out, religion will be directly involved.

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QFT

Science of course would be responsible as well. It's all so sad. Hopefully some of us survive and learn.

[FortunaMaximus]

Uh, ok. So there should be someone to blame. Was the Vatican responsible for the Manhattan Project? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Is the Eastern Orthodox church responsible for redistributing nuclear arms across the -stan's from the old Soviet Union?

[Stu Pidasso]

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This was not meant to be a Christian bashing post necessarily, but I've always believed that if the human race does die out, religion will be directly involved.

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Its definately a possibility, However have you considered that so far athiests have sluaghtered more humans than christians?

Stu

[John21]

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This was not meant to be a Christian bashing post necessarily, but I've always believed that if the human race does die out, religion will be directly involved.

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Its definately a possibility, However have you considered that so far athiests have sluaghtered more humans than christians?

Stu

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I'm not an atheist, but I think it's a bit a stretch to conclude that because some people who were part of particular political ideology were atheists - atheism was the cause of the slaughter.

[luckyme]

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Its definately a possibility, However have you considered that so far athiests have sluaghtered more humans than christians?

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Blondes more than brunettes, too.
A tough thing to count because of problems like most germans being theists during the holocaust and likewise russians, irish, balkans, tutsi's, etc.

There is nothing about not believing in the easter bunny that creates a mandate to kill. Now, if a person believes in allah, or thor, and wants to do their work that may incite them to a crusade or a inquisition or jihad or a ...

Iow, there is no 'creed' that follows just from thinking belief in invisible spirits is nutso. No mission. No need to go to Iraq to do gods work or such.

luckyme

[51cards]

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This was not meant to be a Christian bashing post necessarily, but I've always believed that if the human race does die out, religion will be directly involved.

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Its definately a possibility, However have you considered that so far athiests have sluaghtered more humans than christians?

Stu

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But have you considered that no one who believes in the green poka-dot upsidedown turtle-duck has ever even jaywalked?

Chewy.

[Stu Pidasso]

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I'm not an atheist, but I think it's a bit a stretch to conclude that because some people who were part of particular political ideology were atheists - atheism was the cause of the slaughter.

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Neither religion nor atheism is ever the cause of slaughter. The cause is and has always been humans. Thats the point of my post and its certainly not a stretch.

Stu

[luckyme]

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Neither religion nor atheism is ever the cause of slaughter. The cause is and has always been humans.

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Are you claiming a bible or Quran has never jumped down off the shelf and went about the neighbourhood giving people fatal paper cuts?
What does your statement mean?

luckyme

[CaseS87]

Faith is a very strong weapon. Any sane atheist wouldn't want to bring about the end of the world just because they know there is nothing afterwards. Belief in an afterlife can effectively destroy respect for life. Just look at the extremist Muslims.

[FortunaMaximus]

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Faith is a very strong weapon. Any sane atheist wouldn't want to bring about the end of the world just because they know there is nothing afterwards. Belief in an afterlife can effectively destroy respect for life. Just look at the extremist Inquistion and Crusading Christians, not to mention the US Army.

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FYP for fairness.

[Stu Pidasso]

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What does your statement mean?

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A religious man goes and shoots an abortionist in the head and kills him. Upon his arrest he say he did it because his religion required it of him. What or who is the cause of the abortionist death?

Stu

[FortunaMaximus]

The religious man's mother.

[Stu Pidasso]

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Faith is a very strong weapon.

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I agree, but weapons are not causes of human slaughter.

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Belief in an afterlife can effectively destroy respect for life. Just look at the extremist Muslims.

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More often than not it motivates people to preserve life. If Stalin or Chairman Mao believed killing innocent people would cause them to go to hell do you think they would have done the things they did?

Regarding extremist muslims, their faith provides them with the motivation to give up their lifes in the fight. Their fight however is purely political.

Stu

[Stu Pidasso]

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The religious man's mother.

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Why then do we prosecute and imprison the man and not his mother?

Stu

[luckyme]

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If Stalin or Chairman Mao believed killing innocent people would cause them to go to hell do you think they would have done the things they did?

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You're just teasing right? Do you really need list of all people that believed in hell that did multiple murders or worse? So we know that doesn't stop it.

luckyme

[FortunaMaximus]

Because Common Law doesn't consider causative effects and it's not a crime yet to give birth to a would-be fundamentalist.

[Stu Pidasso]

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You're just teasing right? Do you really need list of all people that believed in hell that did multiple murders or worse? So we know that doesn't stop it.

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Yeah I would like to see that list. While you're at it see if you can also provide to this forum a list of people who confessed to murder or other serious crimes because of thier faith in God and the afterlife.

Stu

[Stu Pidasso]

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Because Common Law doesn't consider causative effects and it's not a crime yet to give birth to a would-be fundamentalist

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So you're saying common law is responsible for all the evil in the world.

Stu

[FortunaMaximus]

No, but it isn't stopping it either. So consider it a flawed, culpable system.

[CaseS87]

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More often than not it motivates people to preserve life. If Stalin or Chairman Mao believed killing innocent people would cause them to go to hell do you think they would have done the things they did?


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Like I said, sane atheists. Atheism alone cannot drive a person to insanity; religion, on the other hand, can and does.

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Regarding extremist muslims, their faith provides them with the motivation to give up their lifes in the fight. Their fight however is purely political.


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If by purely political you mean purely religious then I agree with you. Muslim politics= Muslim religion, there is no separation. Also, with your statement you kind of gave a bit of credence towards my argument. Religion is one of the few things in life that can drive a person to take his and other people's lives for the cause, without significant reason. This devout "sheep following the herd blindly" faith is a necessary ingredient in the destruction of our species.

[malorum]

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In the future I could see a political figure who was a devout and extreme Christian trigger a nuclear (or whatever crazy weapons we have in the future) war in hopes that it would bring about the Rapture.


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I doubt the Bush administration would actually do this I think a more likely scenario is that the administration might finally start believing in Global warming and launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on China's industrial centres to prevent polution and help bring on a Global winter.

[CaseS87]

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In the future I could see a political figure who was a devout and extreme Christian trigger a nuclear (or whatever crazy weapons we have in the future) war in hopes that it would bring about the Rapture.


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I doubt the Bush administration would actually do this I think a more likely scenario is that the administration might finally start believing in Global warming and launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on China's industrial centres to prevent polution and help bring on a Global winter.

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I hope this post is a joke.

[Stu Pidasso]

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If by purely political you mean purely religious then I agree with you.

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Show me a recent incident of terrorism committed by a muslim extermist that had a religious motivation.

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Muslim politics= Muslim religion

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On this you're just plain wrong.

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Also, with your statement you kind of gave a bit of credence towards my argument.

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I agree with you that religious ferver can and is effectively used as a weapon. Its also used as a force of good. The difference between me and you is you think the weapon is responisble for the crime.

Stu

p.s. Stalin and Mao were both sane.

[CORed]

Please tell me more about the green upside down turtle duck. I think I might want to worship it.

[whiskeytown]

Good question.

In the 80's and early 90's I was either studying the Bible or was at a fundamentalist Christian college studying it - the study of the end times basically falls around Daniel, Revelation, and some verses that Jesus talked about with the end of the world in them.

In all the prophecies, Fundamentalist leaders have come up with various boogeymen to suggest the Antichrist could represent - as well as the beast, etc, etc -

when I studied this stuff in the 80's, the boogeymen were Russians, Chinese, the mark of the beast was an implantable microchip, and the Antichrist would start wars that would kill, well, billions. - 1/4th of the population, etc, etc.

In every case, 25 yrs ago, when studying, the antichrist was either a non-protestant (the Pope) or some new-agey messiah figure of some other faith. Right now Muslims are popular targets -

and yet, we'll see that the Antichrist will deceive Christians, even the elect if possible - so he will LOOK CHRISTIAN - and probably call himself Christian - so he'll be doing things that are anti-Christ -

what is anti-Christ? -

well, starting unjust wars for money and profit.
bigotry, judgementalism, and racism
the neglect of basic Christian tenants - caring for the poor, for example.

When I was a young man, I never imagined a pseudo-Christian leader could be in the White House, do all of the above, and maintain his grip on the Christian constituancy - as of 2006, they are starting to lose that grip -

but hell yah, it's possible - he's not gonna look like Marilyn Manson. And they will do everything possible in the meantime to fulfill the prophecies, including...

- raising red heifers for a Temple sacrifice (Temple must be rebuilt for the Antichrist to stand in and proclaim himself God)
- destablizing the region for war, just in case - (a final war at the valley of Meggido is needed)
- oh yah - mark of the beast - 666 or 616 depending on translation - that's his number - now considered to be an implant of some kind similar to the microchips/rfid tags now being bounced around as a sort of personal ID chip -

of course, they won't be here - the vast majority believe that after creating the conditions for the end of the world that they'll be taken in a "Rapture" that is currently not really biblical in it's doctrine - something made up to justify a verse about him coming "unexpectedly" - convenient, to say the least but they've been wrong before and will probably be wrong again before then end of the world on issues like this.

will it happen? - God only knows - but I see it much more likely Christians are going to have a big hand in it -

maybe that's why Jesus has to return - he's so fed up with followers killing in his name he just has to come to earth and straighten them out himself. That's kind of the hypothesis I've been working with the last 3-4 yrs. The Christianity I see in emerging churches isn't the same as the Christendom (earthly Christian countries) that is preached by most of the Religious Right -

That's why many Christians are leaving the RR - but just as many will be infuriated post Nov. 7th and will be looking for new biblical boogeymen -

me - I believe creation is dying - I have to hope God is coming because I have no faith in men to fix the problem.

But I'm also one of those folks who was a little surprised to find that many early Church fathers dismissed or almost ignored Revelations - Martin Luther rejected certain tenants because it would have meant the restoration of the Jewish people, and not only was he an anti-semite, he believed it impossible the Jewish people could ever be restored to Israel - this was in the Middle Ages - they were scattered to the ends of the earth in 70AD and after 1400 yrs, the possibility of them ever getting back there was slim and none.

but my, how times change after 500 yrs.

rb

[vhawk01]

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I'm not an atheist, but I think it's a bit a stretch to conclude that because some people who were part of particular political ideology were atheists - atheism was the cause of the slaughter.

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Neither religion nor atheism is ever the cause of slaughter. The cause is and has always been humans. Thats the point of my post and its certainly not a stretch.

Stu

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Dont tell this to Catholic Charities because they claim that their religion and faith is the source of their good nature, compassion and good deeds.