25NL (6 Max) I RR with QQPF and am minraised with overpair on flop... [Archive]

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jjb108

11-02-2006, 12:59 AM

Villian is 62 13 1.3 in small sample size (<40 hands) Can I call vs villian's expected range and what do you think his range should be and is? Range for donk vs good player here?

PF std?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $18.80
UTG+1: $20.60
CO: $26.20
Hero: $40.05
SB: $24
BB: $23

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG+1 raises to $1, CO calls, Hero raises to $4.35, 3 folds, CO calls.

I'm very happy when original PFR folds but surprised with a flat call. AA or KK come to mind...AK probably pushes but this guy is not 2+2. I've not given odds for him to call for set value. 

Flop: 3/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($10.05, 3 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO raises to $16, Hero ...

Yaboosh

11-02-2006, 01:04 AM

Please push and please be happy when he calls. 33/44/56/77/88/99/TT/JJ/KK/AA/AKs/A7/78/67 etc etc etc.

wake_up

11-02-2006, 01:05 AM

Yeah I think you have to push here.

Big Poppa Smurf

11-02-2006, 01:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've not given odds for him to call for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]

this doesn't mean that he doesn't have one.

yeah this spot sucks I would just shove and hope to be ahead, given your limited read I think we're good here a bunch

jjb108

11-02-2006, 01:08 AM

Thanks...I pushed. Seems standard but I hate the minraise.

Any dissents?

Sh@i'tan

11-02-2006, 01:08 AM

I push and im happy about it, 88/99/TT/JJ all do this.

xwillience

11-02-2006, 01:09 AM

Preflop is Fine.

Flop: hmmmm. could be AA. or maybe a set.. im definitely nervouse at this point and COs low AF isnt helping. but hes really loose PR and mildly aggressive. its probably a set or the str8. two pair... errr. given teh board not likely. I dont like pushing because it only gets called by better hands. I think JJ/TT can fold here unless hes just a total idiot, which looks very possible. but even then he has to give you some respect for RR preflop.

Folding is probably the right answer...

Yaboosh

11-02-2006, 01:15 AM

JJ/TT do not fold for 6 more dollars.

xwillience

11-02-2006, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
JJ/TT do not fold for 6 more dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

6 more dollars? first... its $8 to see the turn, and second.... were playing for stacks here so if we are going to call the min raise, we have to be prepared to call when villian pushes the turn... which costs us $14 more..

Big Poppa Smurf

11-02-2006, 01:23 AM

actually thinking about i reverted to my trusty old thought process, which has stood me in good stead now for many a year. it goes a little something like this:

Villain is really bad. I have an overpair. I want to get all in.

Yaboosh

11-02-2006, 01:26 AM

Were you not saying that if villain has TT/JJ he is folding to a push? If so, it is 6 more to him if we push.

xwillience

11-02-2006, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Were you not saying that if villain has TT/JJ he is folding to a push? If so, it is 6 more to him if we push.

[/ QUOTE ]

ahh.. i think i mis-interpreted your previous post. your right, JJ/TT dont fold for $6 more. but i dont think JJ/TT make up a majority of his holdings.

orange

11-02-2006, 03:23 AM

I think we can shove here most times and see 88+ calling most times. I do not remember the 3-betting ranges for 25nl much, but I am fairly sure they are stacking off here w. an overpair, weak one or not.

eigenvalue

11-02-2006, 05:42 AM

Push, push, push. His range will be any pair, sometimes any flush draw and sometimes any A-x hand. You are way ahead given that range. And You will get called after his reraise, because this kind of player will not lay down any of these hands.

Best regards

eigenvalue

xwillience

11-02-2006, 05:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can shove here most times and see 88+ calling most times. I do not remember the 3-betting ranges for 25nl much, but I am fairly sure they are stacking off here w. an overpair, weak one or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

i just dont get why he would smooth call a medium PP twice preflop and then c/r the flop??? it doesnt make any sense. either hes calling down with a medium PP or hes trying to get it all in with something better imo. thoughts?

Everlong

11-02-2006, 05:56 AM

grrrr converter...potsizes wrong but anyhow:

Similar hand with similar villain. TT+ I def push here against bad opponents.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

BB ($9.50)
UTG ($13.20)
MP ($7.80)
Hero ($25.85)
Button ($10)
SB ($6.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, 2 folds, BB calls $0.60.

Flop: ($1.80) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.8, BB raises to $5, Hero raises to $16.8, BB calls $3.65 (All-In).

Turn: ($27.25) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)
Hero calls $3.65 (All-In).

River: ($30.90) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $30.90

Results in white below:
BB has Qs Ah (one pair, sixes).
Hero has Ts Td (two pair, tens and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins $30.90.

xwillience

11-02-2006, 05:58 AM

i must be doing something wrong, i can never find villains like that...

jjb108

11-02-2006, 09:55 PM

Results at bottom

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: hmmmm. could be AA. or maybe a set.. im definitely nervouse at this point and COs low AF isnt helping. but hes really loose PR and mildly aggressive. its probably a set or the str8. two pair... errr. given teh board not likely. I dont like pushing because it only gets called by better hands. I think JJ/TT can fold here unless hes just a total idiot, which looks very possible. but even then he has to give you some respect for RR preflop.

Folding is probably the right answer...

[/ QUOTE ]

xwillience - this is the line of reasoning that lead me to post this hand and why I asked for the range. (again this villians range is at the bottom) I think the range at 25NL is the answer here to whether we fold or push.

[ QUOTE ]
33/44/56/77/88/99/TT/JJ/KK/AA/AKs/A7/78/67 etc etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yaboosh - I think this range is a bit wide given PF. If preflop had gone raise to 5x call call call or something this is reasonable. Villian really makes a mistake here calling this without KK/AA in my opinion. Calling with AKs is horrible for villian as well because he's OOP and will mis 2/3 of the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
88/99/TT/JJ all do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can shove here most times and see 88+ calling most times. I do not remember the 3-betting ranges for 25nl much, but I am fairly sure they are stacking off here w. an overpair, weak one or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Orange and TheAudition - I think this is a reasonable range for villian but given the minraise...I'd make it 77+ given the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Push, push, push. His range will be any pair, sometimes any flush draw and sometimes any A-x hand. You are way ahead given that range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eigenvalue...I can't see the flush draw with this preflop action. Any pair is reasonble.

Everlong - your hand doesn't have the same PF action so I think TT good here a lot at 25NL but the range is more like what Yaboosh posted for your hand, i.e. very wide.

I hate the minraise and thought about folding but if villian's range includes 33,44,and 77, I think I have to stack off here to avoid the bigger mistake of folding vs the obvious wide range of villian. Villian spews cash if he's calling PF action like this.

My worry is with PF action the range is more like JJ+ and quite possible I'm crushed.

And the answer is...villian has 33 and his range is at least any pocket pair. Question is will he minraise anything but the set? I think stack sizes and preflop action make this a call/push with villians wide range.