Jeffage stud article

[SA125]

IMO, the best strategy article the mag has put out in a long time. Very well written and on the money.

Well done Jeff. Good article, good job.

[Jeffage]

Thanks for the compliments my friend - made my day. I enjoyed writing the article and hope to contribute more.

Jeff

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the compliments my friend - made my day. I enjoyed writing the article and hope to contribute more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. I was gonna write the same OP. I look forward to your future articles. This one was very well balanced between psychology and strategy, and your literary style is definitely strong.

Best,
Jordan

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SA125:

On a slightly different subject, it's my opinion that the very best stud players are better than the best hold 'em players because more skill is available to them because of the nature of stud. This article is a good example.

Best wishes,
Mason

[jfk]

Really enjoyed the article and empathize. While reading it, I was thinking of the Skalnsky article "why some morons do better than you" from a couple of months back.

Yours is the traditional quandry where a well read, well schooled player hangs on too long due to overthinking where a guy playing on instinct just lays down the hand on 6th street.

That feeling you got when the 9 hit is what makes you a winning poker player. That's the benefit of your experience and study. The rest was just confusion and wishful thinking.

[*TT*]

I've had the privilege to sweat Jeffage while playing in the very same game he describes in the article, I think he faithfully recreated the stressful decision process that he must endure. Jeffage is an expert stud player, his article shows the tiny steps a expert knows he must take to become an master player... its amazing how the expert knows what must be done yet the expert's constitution often conflicts with his desire to rise to master level.

Some day many of us will look back on Jeffage as one of the worlds best, and we will be able to say we knew him when he was just a 75/150 regular winner struggling on a downswing as he was fighting his inner constitution to become a master... 2+2 is looking at the next Ted Forest, minus the inner degenerate that Ted is infamous for being.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Trix]

Mason, including no limit hold´em ?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Trix:

Absolutely. In fact, it's not even close.

Best wishes,
Mason

[2461Badugi]

Dear god, something I agree with Mason about.

In any case, I want to point out that while the strategy nature of Jeffage's article was quite good, it was also exceptionally well-written, and hopefully will set a standard for others to aspire to.

[whatsgoingon]

Good Read.. BTW It wasn't for Jeffage's fixing all my grammer and spelling mistakes I wouldn't have graduated from college. The man knows how to write and play poker.

Later,
whatsgoingon

[jfk]

In rereading this I'm curious as to how big a mistake it was (if at all) to have even limped this hand with both a K and T gone.

The theme is the need to have the psychological strength to drop a loser, but not explored is the degree to which the early playing decisions led to that point.

Might a raise have taken the pot early or would the limper almost certainly have come with that hand? Could a fold be correct without live hole cards? Was there a way to play this hand that wouldn't have lead to the river anguish?

I ask this as a person who is either very rusty or green (or both) on stud theory.

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi SA125:

On a slightly different subject, it's my opinion that the very best stud players are better than the best hold 'em players because more skill is available to them because of the nature of stud. This article is a good example.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed completely. But for some reason the mid/high limit stud games (40/80 to 150/300) have many more and much bigger fish than holdem games at the same level.

[Doofus]

Had the fish folded would the pro have enough value to call with his non pair/drawing hand against you given your histories? (assuming only one ace was dead)

[Jeffage]

My post from Sklansky forum...from a thread about stud possibly regaining popularity (Sklansky says no bc casual players don't want to memorize the upcards). Here was my response, kinda goes into why the high limit stud games are good.................

I'd also like to add that casual players don't memorize the upcards. They memorize their hole cards and have a vague idea of what was discarded. Casual players are much more likely in some locales (like NJ) to drop into a 75-150 stud game than they are an 80-160 hold em game. This is because stud is commonly played in home games and (to someone with only a vague understanding of poker), stud is much easier to understand and adapt to casino play than hold em. And there is more of a draw out factor in stud which amateurs like - they won't get massacred by short handed hold em specialists and the high ante in these games encourages more creative play and big pots. Rich, older amateurs tend to like these games.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

I am way too tired to give this post justice, but I will say that I would probably discard this hand in a smaller game where the ante isn't as proportionally large. For a quarter, you are getting a good price to try to either hit something or at catch something that looks scary. For example, catching an ace should take it down. Catching a suited card to the ace can take it down either on 4th or the next street. People might be able to give me aces later bc I'd likely limp with aces after that many callers, a fact that is a playing advantage on a later street, etc. Or maybe I make something. Of course, the profitability of this call assumes I wouldn't botch the hand, which usually I wouldn't. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Might a raise have taken the pot early or would the limper almost certainly have come with that hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too many limpers to attempt a raise. It will never work and will prove quite expensive.


[ QUOTE ]
Was there a way to play this hand that wouldn't have lead to the river anguish?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not seeing the river might help - your mileage may vary.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Doof,

I assume you're talking about my December article. Do you mean third street? He'd be getting 5-1 to call my raise (remember there is a $15 ante and $25 bring-in in this game), so assuming his cards are very live (and the fact that I may raise him on third without aces), he can certainly see another card, and depending on what falls on fourth, possibly several.

Jeff