NL50: Is this turn push sweet or spew?

[chesspain]

After reading Tien's "6-Max Fundamentals" post earlier today, I decided to try to find some of this love in order to kickstart me out of the recent skid I've been experiencing online playing 3/6, 5/10, and NL100. In fact, in the few orbits I've played at this full-ring NL50 table, I've taken down a couple of pots with flop c-bets after isolating limpers from LP with hands like QJo. No good reads on anyone, unfortunately.

Just prior to the hand below, I had raised the last three consecutive pots preflop and won all three without even reaching the turn. Of course, my opponents didn't know I had been dealt AA, AK, and TT. Consequently, I chose to only limp from the Button with KQs in this hand, even if this is a crime against nature. I have $61 to start the hand. My main opponent had $86, whereas the other limpers had less than $27 each.

Preflop: BB posts $0.50. chesspain is Button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP calls $0.50, LP calls $0.50, HJ calls $0.50, 1 fold, chesspain calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="red">LP bets $3</font>, HJ folds, chesspain calls $3, SB folds, BB folds, MP calls $3.

Turn: ($12) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP checks, <font color="red">LP bets $12</font>, <font color="red">chesspain raises all-in to $57...</font>

[EMc]

Chess,

Given your reasoning, I like the limp here.

Howver, Im dumping on the flop. GUtter and overs is not so good here.

On the turn, hmmmm, IDK. If you are behind you are a 2-1 dog most likely, but it has some FE. Its ok, I guess. I probably just call there and then look to stack him on the river, since I have position.

[the_muppeteer]

Well, nice semibluff. And should he call you'll still have a good chance of taking down the pot.

I would fold top pair to that if I wasnt on a draw as well.

[UncleKraut]

I like it. He's going to have a tough time calling unless he's got a set.

[Roadstar]

Chesspain,

Thanks for dropping by!

I think the flop call is meh, if you had a read that the guy stacks off with overpair/TPTK then the call is good.

On the turn, I vote for spew based on the board and his bet sizes. On the flop its a rainbow flop with some straight draw possibilities. At this point his hand range is wide, so something like:

QJ,22,88,99,TT,JJ,AT,KT,QT,T9, 76

but on the turn he pots again $12. That should narrow it down a bit to

QJ, 22, 99, TT, JJ, AT, T9, 76 and very generously KT, AT. Therefore his range is a big favourite over your hand. Even with the generous range, I think you only reasonable fold out AT, KT and JJ (altho JJ is openended). The rest will very likely call.

I like a call here because if he has a set or straight, you're taking his stack.

Please let me know your thoughts and hope you continue posting here once in a while


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,244 games 0.010 secs 224,400 games/sec

Board: 2s 9c Td 8s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 71.2121 % 71.21% 00.00% { TT-99, 22, ATs, KTs, QJs, T9s, ATo, KTo, QJo, T9o }
Hand 2: 28.7879 % 28.79% 00.00% { KsQs }


[ QUOTE ]


Flop: ($3) 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="red">LP bets $3</font>, HJ folds, chesspain calls $3, SB folds, BB folds, MP calls $3.

Turn: ($12) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP checks, <font color="red">LP bets $12</font>, <font color="red">chesspain raises all-in to $57...</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

[mxer7734]

Raise pf. Turn is ok but debateable imo.

[kaz2107]

the limp seems fine to me.

flop call is not so great but meh

turn i dont like because u dont have a read. some one posted how they are folding tp to ur push which is fine but the problem is an avg villian here doesnt fold tpmk enough of the time to make up for how far u r behind in the hand when called. u obv have some FE but i highly doubt u have as much as u think given u dont have a read. if u have a read that villian is decent and capable of laying down tp hands then this play is great but with out a read u have to assume the avg and the avg isnt good enough to make this profitable imo

thus i probably call and if i hit look to stack on the river

[OneBigRed]

Wow, i've been pondering over a similiar hand from yesterday. Did'nt post it here, because i felt it was an obvious spew.

I dont have the hand history, but here's how it went:

Villains are something like 65/3/1.5

FTP .10/.25
SB:25$
BB:40$
Hero: 25$

Hero has A/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero raises to 1$, SB and BB calls.

Flop J/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB (does stupid bluffs too) bets 3$, BB and hero calls.

Turn (pot 12$) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, BB bets 6$, hero goes all in (21$), SB folds, BB calls.

River 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Aside from sweet table selection, i'm not happy with this hand. I ran this with pokerstove, and im about 30/70 against anything on villains (BB) range. I failed to consider how passive my opponents are, and the likelyhood of getting any FE from these donks.

But to stay on topic, i dont think your was any better. Unless LP is two-barreling, he likes his hand enough to call against a player with your table image.

[chesspain]

I guess that the flop call was kind of meh. I only made it because the bettor had me covered, meaning I had some decent implied odds.

I thought that the turn brought me nearly the perfect card to semi-bluff push, given how this card now completes the 76/JT straights. Of course, if I am called, I have lots of outs to improve.

FWIW, both players folded to my push.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
thus i probably call and if i hit look to stack on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem I see with this plan is that if I hit my straight or flush my hand is fairly transparent if I push.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

On the turn, I vote for spew based on the board and his bet sizes. On the flop its a rainbow flop with some straight draw possibilities. At this point his hand range is wide, so something like:

QJ,22,88,99,TT,JJ,AT,KT,QT,T9, 76

but on the turn he pots again $12. That should narrow it down a bit to

QJ, 22, 99, TT, JJ, AT, T9, 76 and very generously KT, AT. Therefore his range is a big favourite over your hand. Even with the generous range, I think you only reasonable fold out AT, KT and JJ (altho JJ is openended). The rest will very likely call.

I like a call here because if he has a set or straight, you're taking his stack.



[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that everything changes if we alter the scenario to LP raises pre-flop, after which I coldcall on the button. Assuming I had enough left on the turn to make at least a pot-size reraise, would you now like the semi-bluff push more or less than as played in the posted hand, given the obvious differences in the hand ranges in play?

[Dan Bitel]

i'f raise pf still

fold flop

and call turn. You got lucky he folded. After potting 2 streets in an unraised pot, they rarely fold

[redCashion]

You were probably labeled a maniac by every opponent after this hand if the turn was called, but it's an interesting hand. My biggest problem is with the flop call, but you got a good card on the turn so a push is OK.

[ChipStorm]

[ QUOTE ]
i'f raise pf still

fold flop

and call turn. You got lucky he folded. After potting 2 streets in an unraised pot, they rarely fold

[/ QUOTE ]
What dbitel said. You gave good reasons for the pf limp, but it still makes baby Jesus cry. The hand plays easier if you raise that [censored] up. What he said on other streets as well.