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View Full Version : I need help folding hands.

Imrahil
10-31-2006, 02:45 PM
I haven't been able to fold hands lately for some reason. Particularly on the river. I'm always trying to make these heroic calls.


Here is an example:

Villain is 63/16/1.1 and just lost a pot so he may be on tilt.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($26.15)
CO ($30.80)
Button ($3.90)
SB ($30.65)
BB ($16.05)
Hero ($40.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls $0.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($2.25) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.25</font>, SB calls $1.25.

Turn: ($4.75) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($4.75) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $4.25</font>, Hero calls $4.25.

Final Pot: $13.25

I would guess most of you fold this? Is it possible he was on a FD and now is bluffing at the pot? I think my major leak is making bad calling decisions on the river.
orange
10-31-2006, 02:56 PM
definite fold.
netstorm
10-31-2006, 02:57 PM
Zeebo my friend, zeebo...

meaning you cant fold this one :P
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 03:01 PM
I used to do this all the time. Here, I'm not looking to see a showdown with 44 unimproved, so if you are willing to call a riverbet (as you did here), then I would second-barrel the turn and c/f river instead. If I had something like KK-JJ, I like your original line a lot more.

But IMO, the best line here is to c/f all the way down after flop cbet is called. I also bet more on the flop.
ColdSteel
10-31-2006, 03:15 PM
Betting the turn is a better plan than calling the river, and costs the same ammount of money. Your thinking is mis-aligned.
Imrahil
10-31-2006, 03:16 PM
I think I give people too much credit for a FD when it's just heads up and chances are that he doesn't have one. I used to be able to lay down hands but seeing so much awefull play makes it hard. Maybe I should have only called the river bet if it was about half pot or smaller.
redCashion
10-31-2006, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I used to be able to lay down hands but seeing so much awefull play makes it hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't out-donk a donk. The only way to make money off of bad players is to not make the mistakes they are making, so you have to fold in obvious fold situations.
Jigsaws
10-31-2006, 05:44 PM
PSB are generally not bluffs unless you're dealing with a known maniac. Most weak players bluff at pots weakly because they "don't want to lose too much money if he calls".
Tony Montana 22
10-31-2006, 05:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You can't out-donk a donk. The only way to make money off of bad players is to not make the mistakes they are making, so you have to fold in obvious fold situations.



[/ QUOTE ]


Absolutley golden, and so fundamental that I foget it on a regular basis - already stickied to my monitor so at least I won't have an excuse for not remembering it.
snoopdawg
10-31-2006, 05:46 PM
Coupl-a questions then....
1. So the natural play is to bet this turn?
2. As is, would you call a 1/2PSB on river?

I make these mistakes toooooo often. This thread has really made it obvious to me.
Hustlenuss
10-31-2006, 05:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can't out-donk a donk. The only way to make money off of bad players is to not make the mistakes they are making, so you have to fold in obvious fold situations.



[/ QUOTE ]


Absolutley golden, and so fundamental that I foget it on a regular basis - already stickied to my monitor so at least I won't have an excuse for not remembering it.

[/ QUOTE ]

SO true. now where my post-its at?
Imrahil
10-31-2006, 06:16 PM
I actually was just watching the Monte Carlo Millions and I think it was Mel Juda, made a river call with 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif on a T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. His opponent Marc Goodwin had AJ. It reminded me of my problem of not laying down hands when I am probably beat.

Also, Richard Gryko made a call with 74o on a board of K /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif against Begnt Sonnert. Begnt bet 10k into an 8k pot and Richard called. Begnt had K/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I LOLed at that because that's the stupid thing I'd do.

I agree with what you said Jigsaw, about PSBs being made hands. I made a couple calls todays with medium strength hands when my opponent bet like 1/4 of the pot. I have to remember that big bets usually mean big hands.