Stupid Easy PF Question

[SnglMaltScotch]

Sorry for the very basic questions. Long time LHE player trying to learn NLH.

Table conditions are fairly normal for a full-ring NLH25 table. Maybe 28% VPIP with 4-6% PFR. Your stack is roughly average at about $25.

You are dealt a small pp (66-22) in very early position UTG/UTG+1. There is a pretty good chance that if you limp you will get 2-3 limpers behind plus the bb but the chance of a raise if fairly small. If you raise 3X there is a fairly good chance you get 1-2 callers or win the blinds. If you raise 4-5X you will most probably win the blinds.

What is the standard play here. I hate open limping. I hate raising 3X and playing with bad position. I hate raising 4-5X and most probably winning the blinds.

Assistance would be apprecaited.

SMS

[ablick]

I don't recommend to play small pairs (22-55) from early position at all. If table is passive and there's seldom a raise preflop, then it's OK to limp in with these. You said it yourself "I hate open limping. I hate raising 3X and playing with bad position. I hate raising 4-5X and most probably winning the blinds.".

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the very basic questions. Long time LHE player trying to learn NLH.

Table conditions are fairly normal for a full-ring NLH25 table. Maybe 28% VPIP with 4-6% PFR. Your stack is roughly average at about $25.

You are dealt a small pp (66-22) in very early position UTG/UTG+1. There is a pretty good chance that if you limp you will get 2-3 limpers behind plus the bb but the chance of a raise if fairly small. If you raise 3X there is a fairly good chance you get 1-2 callers or win the blinds. If you raise 4-5X you will most probably win the blinds.

What is the standard play here. I hate open limping. I hate raising 3X and playing with bad position. I hate raising 4-5X and most probably winning the blinds.

Assistance would be apprecaited.

SMS

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on your style. Seems like you're new so you don't have much of a style yet. Just play tight and fold.

[Perk76]

If your table is that passive 4-6% preflop raise, and you know your getting limpers, limp in. Call a raise of 4bb's if someone raises. Obviously at an aggressive table preflop with alot of RERAISING going on, its not profitable to limp with low pairs. But if the table is a standard passive 1 raise type table, limping is fine, calling a raise of 4bbs is fine.

[martijn]

I raise any pp from any position when I'm the first to enter the pot.

[clearcut]

I raise 4x+1 any PP any position at these stakes

[ablick]

In full-ring game?

If someone is new to the no limit, this is something that I strongly advice not to do. It's OK to raise these hands from late position, if you're first to enter the pot, but not from UTG.

[Dennisa]

[ QUOTE ]
In full-ring game?

If someone is new to the no limit, this is something that I strongly advice not to do. It's OK to raise these hands from late position, if you're first to enter the pot, but not from UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Set mining in low limit games is one of the most profitable things you can do. Don't worry about open limping at this level. Most villians will never notice. Hit your set, play it fast and get paid. Some donk will stack off with two pair/draw/tptk. The only situation I will not call is if there is a raise and re-raise before it gets to you in any position. At lower levels, you are likely to see a push preflop.

[Phytopath]

I agree set-mining is where alot of money is made. I find PPs especially small ones easy to play from any position, since you hit a set or you fold post-flop. I don't mind getting raised either after limping, because it is just a greater chance of stacking the player if you hit. Agreed though with alot of raising and re-raising small pairs lose most of their value.

[Gorilla Boy]

This is an area of my game that I have been working on recently, I have found that if I raise 4 times UTG or in early position then you tend to make more money if you hit you're set.
I'm not a big fan of open limping, especialy in early position because there's just too many players that limp in after you or push you off your hand with a raise.

Raise it up 4x w/ any small pp - you'll see more rewards when you do hit the set! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ablick]

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[ QUOTE ]
In full-ring game?

If someone is new to the no limit, this is something that I strongly advice not to do. It's OK to raise these hands from late position, if you're first to enter the pot, but not from UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Set mining in low limit games is one of the most profitable things you can do. Don't worry about open limping at this level. Most villians will never notice. Hit your set, play it fast and get paid. Some donk will stack off with two pair/draw/tptk. The only situation I will not call is if there is a raise and re-raise before it gets to you in any position. At lower levels, you are likely to see a push preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I see nothing wrong with open limping with pocket pairs (I still usually don't do that from early position with 22-55). With small pairs, I want to see the flop cheaply and hope for a set. If I hit the set, I'll still get paid off, because players at these levels will call you down with TPTK. If I don't hit my set, it's easiest fold ever if I'm raised and I'll lose the minimum.

[kurto]

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I don't recommend to play small pairs (22-55) from early position at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's horrible.

Nothing better then a passive table allowing you to play these hands cheap in early position. Limp these from early position all the time. Call raises and reraise so long as you can get in for less then 10% of your stack AND the stack of the other people in the hand.

[Vinetou]

Limp in. There is no reason for just open raising here because opponents won't get a read on you. If someone raises, you can risk 5-10 percent of your stack which is pretty much. You are getting very good implied odds if you hit a set against bad opponents. otherwise it depends on your style.

[ChipStorm]

The players over at HSNL, El Diablo in particular, will tell you that they don't play 22/33/44 from EP, that it just doesn't seem profitable.

But at uNL, limping these from EP is bread-and-butter as a set-mining play.

The players at our tables are more passive, more loose, and less observant than the HSNL players (generally), all of which contribute to the profitability of these hands.

Part of their profitability, of course, comes in your ability to fold them to a strong raise preflop, and fold them on the flop if you miss your set, rather than trying to get fancy. Overplaying these hands unimproved will kill you.

It also comes from your ability to get the money in when you do hit. But to the extent you're confident in your play in these regards, you can make big money from these hands at these stakes.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

either limp, flop set, and profit

or raise, cbet, and profit

[ablick]

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I don't recommend to play small pairs (22-55) from early position at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's horrible.

Nothing better then a passive table allowing you to play these hands cheap in early position. Limp these from early position all the time. Call raises and reraise so long as you can get in for less then 10% of your stack AND the stack of the other people in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, read my whole post. In the next sentence I said it’s OK to play these hands in passive table from EP.

If you want to play 22 UTG after raise and reraise, good luck, because you’ll really need it. It’s nice to end up in the middle of the raising war with this kind of premium hand.

I’m interested about that “10% -rule” you introduced. I’m not saying it’s wrong, I’m just interested the math behind it. How is it possible to make these hands profitable if you are willing to invest 10% of your stack? Doesn’t that basically mean that you have to double up every time you hit your set (I don’t think that’s possible)? I based this assumption to that you’ll loose sometimes to the better hand even if you hit your set. Of course you will be able to push your opponents out by betting with your small pair on the flop sometimes, but then again, at least where I’m playing, they will usually call your bet with second pair. In my mind the 10% sounds bit too much, but correct me if there are flaws in my thinking and don’t just say I’m wrong, please, let me know also how you have determined this 10%.

Difference in our thinking might be also, that we play in different sites and some plays work better on different kind of tables. I have found out that style I’m now playing seems to be more profitable to me.

[dashman]

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either limp, flop set, and profit

or raise, cbet, and profit

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, I think it depends on the table.

[Dan Bitel]

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either limp, flop set, and profit

or raise, cbet, and profit

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