View Full Version : Pre-Flop Standards 6 Max-What do you think?
CaucasianAsian29
10-31-2006, 04:39 AM
This is pretty much how I like to play Pre Flop. I was wondering what you think for a TAG style? Mostly, I'm wondering if there is anything really wrong, or anyspots i'm missing alot of value? Also, I play a lot alot more hands on the button but should I open up more in 3rd position?
Thank you
6 Max
First In
First Position
AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,9,9 - R
88,77,66,55,44,33,22 - C
AKs, A,K,AQ, A,Q’s, A,Q,AJs - R
KQs – R
First In
Second Position
AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,9,9,8,8 – R
77,66,55,44,33,22 - C
AKs, A,K,AQ, A,Q’s, A,Q,AJs - R
KQs, K,Q – R
First In
Third Position
AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,99,88,77 – R
66,55,44,33,22 - C
AKs, A,K,AQ, A,Q’s, A,Q,AJs - R
KQs, K,Q, K,Js – R
First In
Fourth Position(Button)
AA,KK,-C ½ the time/ R ½ the time
QQ,JJ,1010,99,88,77 – R
66,55,44,33,22 - R
AK-A,6Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10Suited & unsuited-R
Small Blind
AA,KK,-C ½ the time/ R ½ the time
QQ,JJ,1010,99,88,77 – R
66,55,44,33,22 - R
AK-A,6Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10Suited & unsuited-R
Not First In
Call w/ pocket pairs, sometimes suited connectors if given decent implied odds, re-raise strong hands.
I don't like limping at 6max, I'd raise the pairs from early position and raise AA/KK on button, calling there looks really fishy and blinds will usually be more than happy to check and see a flop.
Other than that it looks okay. I raise a bunch of connectors from button as well because you can steal blinds pretty easily or take the pot down with a cbet.
When you limp UTG its always a PP.
CaucasianAsian29
10-31-2006, 04:27 PM
Which suited connectors are you raising from the button? Would this be pretty a good chart for a new NL player? Any other thoughts?
I think 78s+ and T9o+ .. maybe bump that up to 89s and JTo if I'm feeling passive.
If I'm feeling hyper-aggressive an in control of the table, 54s+
BukNaked36
10-31-2006, 04:38 PM
All pocket pairs are an open raise from all positions.
SC's on the button - 78s might be a nice start. Could go down to 56s if you want to.
Check this out for some perspective -
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=1#Post7827947 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7827947&an=0&page=1#Post 7827947)
the_muppeteer
10-31-2006, 04:46 PM
Perhaps a bit much in first position, other that thats it looks good. I personally don't limp a lot at 6max 50NL.
And in third position I would raise with the lower pairs, its easier getting payed if you flop a low set, if someone puts in a standard raise behind you you'll call anyway. At least I will /images/graemlins/smile.gif
So why not be the one raising, that if a low flop hits they'll think your c-bet is a bluff.
The last 1k hands I've played I have raised almost any suited connector in position (56+), as long as not more than 1-2 persons have limped. And I checked PO stats, it has payed off. Either everyone folds, or I take it down with a c-bet on the flop, and a couple of times I've hit a made straight or a openended straight/flush draw that have payed off.
Of course, 1k+ hands is nothing, so I don't know if this is a short trend.
Anyone with a little more hands to show for got any opinions on this?
I'm not doing this if I have several LAP calling stations on the table though.
CaucasianAsian29
10-31-2006, 04:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
All pocket pairs are an open raise from all positions.
SC's on the button - 78s might be a nice start. Could go down to 56s if you want to.
Check this out for some perspective -
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=1#Post7827947 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7827947&an=0&page=1#Post 7827947)
[/ QUOTE ]
Very nice article, thank you for it, haven't finished it all the way, but no open limping w/ pp's is a crazy concept to me. Guess it shows you how much i know.
kaz2107
10-31-2006, 05:02 PM
heres my typical range utg
22+ raise
67s and 78s raise (might open raise with a few more suited connectors if the table is right)
AJs+ raise
AJ+ raise
KQs (maybe if the table is right)
every thing else i fold utg. i dont limp anything utg in 6 max. seems crappy to me. if it is good enough to play oop then it is good enough to raise imo.
and then i open up my range as my position get better obv. hope this helps a bit. seems like ur range is decent. maybe a lil to loose utg and a lil too tight in the CO and BT.
Brian O'Nolan
10-31-2006, 05:05 PM
Open raise all pp's. Don't worry about mixing up your preflop play at uNL, just make what you think is the optimal play for the situation. If you're ever going to limp aces or kings I would do it UTG at a more aggro table and hope to repop it, but again you run into the same problem as limping them from LP when it gets limped around, the flop comes 678 or something and you don't know where you are.
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 05:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Open raise all pp's. Don't worry about mixing up your preflop play at uNL
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify, limping 22 UTG isn't exactly mixing it up (according to most people's standards).
the_muppeteer
10-31-2006, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
heres my typical range utg
22+ raise
67s and 78s raise (might open raise with a few more suited connectors if the table is right)
AJs+ raise
AJ+ raise
KQs (maybe if the table is right)
every thing else i fold utg. i dont limp anything utg in 6 max. seems crappy to me. if it is good enough to play oop then it is good enough to raise imo.
and then i open up my range as my position get better obv. hope this helps a bit. seems like ur range is decent. maybe a lil to loose utg and a lil too tight in the CO and BT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting, a bit larger range than I raise up.
What do you do if the flop is Axx or Kxx and someone called behind you preflop?
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 05:43 PM
Don't limp AA and KK OTB. Just raise.
UTG:
AA-22
AKs-A9s
AK-AJ
KQ
KJs
T9s+
kaz2107
10-31-2006, 05:48 PM
if it is HU going to the flop i cbet all flops basically (assuming i dont have any specific reads to detur me from doing this obv)
kaz2107
10-31-2006, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Don't limp AA and KK OTB. Just raise.
UTG:
AA-22
AKs-A9s
AK-AJ
KQ
KJs
T9s+
[/ QUOTE ]
wow im such a nitt lol. wut stats do u play?
Hattifnatt
10-31-2006, 05:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Don't limp AA and KK OTB. Just raise.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is important, I cant see any reason to limp with them even 5% of the time (and you wrote 50% of the time)? Especially since you raise about anything else you play in that spot.
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 05:55 PM
HU and no reads, the only flops I don't cbet are when its monotone and I don't have either suit or a pair. Also, stuff like AKT or JT9 (2-suited).
Jigsaws
10-31-2006, 06:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
HU and no reads, the only flops I don't cbet are when its monotone and I don't have either suit or a pair. Also, stuff like AKT or JT9 (2-suited).
[/ QUOTE ]
WTF? I always bet monotone flops. > 1/2 of the time they don't have any card of the suit and they're super scared to continue. Do agree with not betting AKT/JT9 etc.
OP: I don't like these kinds of starting charts at all. On some tables I go nuts from all positions, on some tables I'm a super nit. With some blinds I raise 60% OTB when folded to me, with some blinds maybe 15%. There's some nits who I'll raise 100% if it's folded to me in the SB vs. their BB, there's some stations where I'll open limp into their BB a ton.
That's the beauty of NLHE.
Is it just me or is your btn range way too tight?
CaucasianAsian29
10-31-2006, 07:18 PM
Here's my new chart. I agree that you should change your play depending on the table. But, I am a nit-and I like it.
6-Max
First In
First Position
AA-22 - R
AKs-A10s - R
AK-AJ
KQs,K,Q – R
First In
Second Position
AA-22 – R
AKs-A9s-R
AK-A,J- R
KQs, K,Q,KJs – R
10,9s+
First In
Third Position
AA-22 – R
AKs-A,8s- R
AK-A,10
KQs, K,Q, K,Js, KJ – R
First In
Fourth Position(Button)
AA-22 - R
AK-A,6 Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10 Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10 Suited & unsuited-R
All suited connectors down to 6,7s
Small Blind
AA-22 – R
AK-A,6 Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10 Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10 Suited & unsuited-R
All suited connectors down to 6,7s
the_muppeteer
10-31-2006, 07:19 PM
I guess raising with crap UTG has it advantages, some ***hole raised up with A8o on stars 50NL 6max just now. I was the CO and only called with AKs.
Flop: A8x..
It didn't seem like this guy would raise small PP (yeah, the A8o suprised me), so I lost like $25 on that hand.
Funny session btw, down 100 and up 100 in 30 mins... got the silver star at least.
the_muppeteer
10-31-2006, 07:22 PM
I liked your new chart, but be carefull in the SB, if your table is full of loose players that never puts in a PFR you wont get any reads on the calling stations behind you...
kaz2107
10-31-2006, 08:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Here's my new chart. I agree that you should change your play depending on the table. But, I am a nit-and I like it.
6-Max
First In
First Position
AA-22 - R
AKs-A10s - R
AK-AJ
KQs,K,Q – R
First In
Second Position
AA-22 – R
AKs-A9s-R
AK-A,J- R
KQs, K,Q,KJs – R
10,9s+
First In
Third Position
AA-22 – R
AKs-A,8s- R
AK-A,10
KQs, K,Q, K,Js, KJ – R
First In
Fourth Position(Button)
AA-22 - R
AK-A,6 Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10 Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10 Suited & unsuited-R
All suited connectors down to 6,7s
Small Blind
AA-22 – R
AK-A,6 Suited & unsuited - R
KQ-K,10 Suited & unsuited – R
Q,J- Q,10 Suited & unsuited-R
All suited connectors down to 6,7s
[/ QUOTE ]
id add ALL SCs besides 23s in ur CO and BT ranges fyi and probably some other random hands from button and CO
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 11:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
WTF? I always bet monotone flops. > 1/2 of the time they don't have any card of the suit and they're super scared to continue.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't specific enough. I always cbet something like A74s...not so much on a flop of J87s.
Shaddux
10-31-2006, 11:30 PM
I also raise any suited ace from CO and BT.
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