Why I don't reraise with AK preflop

[redCashion]

This might literally be the first non-tournament setting where I have reraised with AK in the preflop. I actually am sort of opposed to the idea on principle because I don't like getting that much money in with an unmade hand, but I'd seen it espoused alot in other forums (I think especially while browsing MSNL). But if you don't hit, and your cbet doesn't take it down, you've essentially dumped a great deal of BB into a losing cause.

Thoughts, anyone else making good use of this technique?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

SB ($24.55)
BB ($155.55)
UTG ($37.30)
MP ($50)
Hero ($56.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.75.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP (poster) raises to $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP calls $5.50.

Flop: ($16) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12.5</font>, MP calls $12.50.

Turn: ($41) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $29.75 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

[Reid L]

Youre always gonna miss flops. I just hate the idea of letting a J4 hit.

[Leviathan101]

Yes that's true. Usually you dump a lot of chips if both your raise and your C-bet get called.

However in my experience, usually your raise and c-bet DON'T get called. A lot of players at micro limits seem to have a lot of respect for a 3 bet, and usually assign the same range to your 3 bet, that they would 3 bet themselves. Then when you c-bet the flop, i think AK flies out hte window because "No way he's betting that big with AK here." I think you just ran into a donk that can't fold AJ here. It happens, but reraising AK preflop is good because you take down a lot of pots right there, the c-bet usually works, and it opens your 3 betting range making it harder for players to identify your big hands.

[demon102]

I used to think along the same lines of u in terms of 3 betting with AK but like leviathan said u will usually take the pot preflop or on the flop with a c-bet. Another great thing about this play is that in the long run it will help u get more action on ur big pairs when u 3-bet with JJ-AA and if u like to 3 bet with 1010 that hand too. Dont think in the short term of the small amount of BB ur gonna lose but more of the long run where ur opponent will put u on AK and pay u of with a lesser hand. With more experience u will figure out how u can play these hands for more profit.

[carnivalhobo]

reraising a wider range increases variance, you will have many more ups and downs per session in the form of 50-100bb, if you play well it ends up making you more money, but it can be unnerving at first when you drop a buyin or 5 right off the bat. keep repoping AK, its good i promise.

[orange]

This can be fine at these levels. But as you move up, 3-betting plays a very very important role in your development as a player, and should become a crucial part of your arsenal. I would probably suggest waiting until 100nl before starting to 3-bet a bit more frequently PF.

I would keep reraising AK pf. Its a good hand. Decent enough place to start in your 3-betting quest.

[redCashion]

I 3bet with QQ+ (sometimes JJ). I can see opening up the range as being usefuul, but I think at these levels I don't have to worry about opening up my range for the sake of getting play on the better hands. I don't think people are paying that close attention to my range since there is alot of variety in who I play at tables.

But one of my favorite things about AK is that at these levels people often overplay AQ and AJ. So I like to smooth call and try to stack those people off after the flop. Probably as play improves that becomes less useful.

[orange]

at these levels, having a wide 3-betting range isn't too big of an issue (and probably spew). but as stated, try to open up your game a little bit as you go up.

[MortenTA]

I thinks you played this hand fine

[carnivalhobo]

[ QUOTE ]
I 3bet with QQ+ (sometimes JJ). I can see opening up the range as being usefuul, but I think at these levels I don't have to worry about opening up my range for the sake of getting play on the better hands. I don't think people are paying that close attention to my range since there is alot of variety in who I play at tables.

But one of my favorite things about AK is that at these levels people often overplay AQ and AJ. So I like to smooth call and try to stack those people off after the flop. Probably as play improves that becomes less useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

you really should be 3betting JJ for value pure and simple. I would suggest as you become more comfortable playing in reraised pots you quickly add TT and AK to the "almost always 3bet" grouping. I agree with orange though, you dont need to bet reraising suited connectors or whatever for deception yet, but being able to be comfortable in reraised pots will be very valuable as you move up.

[tomonbass]

I think it depends entirely on what kind of opponent your against especially at 6 max....

Against a more LAG type of player whos always open raising light then my 3 bet range is huge Broadway cards, 77+ etc

But against a more conventional ABC kind of player I dont mind calling with QQ/JJ/1010/AK and see what the flop brings dont get me wrong Ill 3 bet to mix it up with these hands....

Its just not necessary to do it all the time IMO...

Play each hand as it comes and then take it from there...

[Big_Jim]

Standard.

Spike a Q next time.

[munkey]

I rarely reraised AK preflop and only started doing it at NL50. After convo with 4_2_it and a post I read and some experience I've started doing it alot more and OOP.
I don't always 3bet with it but am becoming more comfortable in reraised pots now after 3betting TT+, AQS+.

I think it's just a natural progression
unraised, raised, 3bet - I wouldn't be surprised if in MSNL+ they 4bet/AI alot more preflop and suspect it to be true.

[4_2_it]

I may need to draft a 3-betting pre-flop with AK guide. I'll check the archives and see if it's already been done first though......

OP - You played that hand fine. Do not play it any differently in the future.

[dashman]

I just recently started doing this, as I'm new to $25nl. I have found that when I 3-bet with AK it makes it easier for the c-bet on the flop to take the pot down, whereas cold calling the raise and then betting, the donk mind will process this as bs. Start strong end strong has become my new motto.

[ColdSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like getting that much money in with an unmade hand

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong-headed thinking. The opponents are no more likely to have a "made" hand when you have AK than when you don't, for one thing. More to the point, not only are they not more likely to have AA or KK, they are actually less likely since you already have one of each.

It's true that you'll only hit about 1/3 of the time, but the same is also true of your opponents. Those times when nobody has hit is when you are able to take the pot with a CB is you re-raise preflop. That's not to say you should CB 100% of the time when you re-raise PF (anyone who says you should is wrong). It depends on a lot of things, most notably how many opponents you have and how they play pre &amp; postflop (eg, what thier hand range is).

I wouldn't say that you must re-raise with AK preflop every time. But there are some situations you must, and there are some situations where you can be forgiven for flatcalling.

One situation you must re-raise is when you are in the blinds and there are limpers before a late raise. It is a major error to not re-raise here. It's very likely you have the best hand &amp; the most equity here, and if you just flatcall it creates a situation where limp-calls cascade behind you and you see a raised multiway flop with a top-pair type hand out of position. Flatcalling here is the worst of the three possible choices. You would be better off folding.

One situation where flatcalling might be OK is when there is an early raise and then everyone folds to you on the button. Here it is less likely that you will have a multiway pot, depending on your read of the blinds, and you have position. Here I'd still frequently re-raise, but flatcalling is OK if used in moderation.

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
I may need to draft a 3-betting pre-flop with AK guide. I'll check the archives and see if it's already been done first though......

OP - You played that hand fine. Do not play it any differently in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

There SHOULD be a good guide on 3betting today...hopefully.

[Antinome]

I've always 3bet AK. I've taken lately to occasionally calling with it in position against tight players to allow AQ-AT to make bigger postflop mistakes.

[dedmoney]

[ QUOTE ]

Spike a Q next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, wtf? that's what I'd do.

[Brizza]

Stupid question but what's the definition of 3 betting?

[wudabum]

i dont kno about anyone else, but i tend to 4 bet AK...what is everyones opinion on that?

[ASPoker8]

No, here is why you don't reraise w/ AK Preflop:

because you suck at poker

[Jamougha]

I don't really like the c-bet on a JT9 board.

[Brian O'Nolan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the c-bet on a JT9 board.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree 100%. This is a monster flop for most opponents flatcalling your 3bet, plus you're in position w/ a draw to the nuts. I check behind here like 90%.

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the c-bet on a JT9 board.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, when you 3bet PF and miss c-betting depends on board. Looking for somewhat uncoordinated flops with AK imo. Even just a JT2 board seems like it should go check, check more than c-bet. Not worried about boards that have flush draws or small cards to straight but with three cards like this the person calling has at least OESD, two pair, set, etc., really strong hands or is more afraid of it than we are. On turn you just need to re-evaluate action, check will induce tons of bluffs but oh well.

[JimboNYY24]

If there is a guide to 3-betting preflop can someone direct me to it? I tried searching but I apparently suck at the search feature.

[corsakh]

Villain had a good hand preflop.
Villain hit the flop.
You missed.

This never happened before.
Whats your point?

[renotime]

against a laggy player i will flat call and against a tag player i will reraise hoping to get action from an aq or an aj

i'll take it a step further with a laggy player and check call all the way down as long as it's a pretty dry board b/c they usually have nothing most of the time

[orange]

you can check the flop sometimes, dont have to bet all the time...

[bsheck]

I always flat call with AK in position. Sometimes you'll hit the flop and extract from a weaker ace. Sometimes you'll miss the flop but be able to steal the pot anyway. You keep the preflop pot small which gives you room to maneuver. Putting in 1/3 of your stack and having to fold is just hemorrhaging money away.

[wingchunflush]

ak info is here

http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm

[wooziephantom]

3-betting with ak is super standard and with position on your opponent its even better.. Check behind on the flop.. I tend to c-bet less with ak in 3-bet pots because at these stakes their range is pretty narrow and strong (this is an on average observation, with reads I might c-bet more frequently). Correct me if I'm totally off here, but at micro stakes I usually put random players on a range consisting off TT, JJ, QQ,AQ, AK (u'll probably see the occasional call with AA also, but not to common) when they call in 3-bet pot... Is this way to narrow for an ABC player at these stakes?

[Worm75]

holy ninja bump!!

[Hail Eris]

Only time I would not 3bet AK/AQ is against specific villains who would go broke if they hit with dominated hands but fold to your 3bet PF. Even then, it's probably better to 3bet smallish to prevent a multiway pot.

That said, you shouldn't always cbet when you whiff, and this is a pretty horrendous board to do it on, I think.

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes that's true. Usually you dump a lot of chips if both your raise and your C-bet get called.

However in my experience, usually your raise and c-bet DON'T get called. A lot of players at micro limits seem to have a lot of respect for a 3 bet, and usually assign the same range to your 3 bet, that they would 3 bet themselves. Then when you c-bet the flop, i think AK flies out hte window because "No way he's betting that big with AK here." I think you just ran into a donk that can't fold AJ here. It happens, but reraising AK preflop is good because you take down a lot of pots right there, the c-bet usually works, and it opens your 3 betting range making it harder for players to identify your big hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

why does that make 3betting AK good though?
I don´t think it´s a good reason to 3 bet just because you can take down the pot right there or with a cbet. This would take the whole value of Ak away.
I found that at 50NL people really overvalue their AJ on a A52r board. This is why I often like to call with AK in position.

[DaycareInferno]

because people call you all day long with pp fishing for sets when they don't have the correct odds to do so. when you just call a raise with it, they usually do, because there is a ton of money still left behind. if i go broke to a set in a 3bet pot with tptk, i really don't care, because even if i stacked off every single time that happened, they're still losing money.

[Mr_Pathetic]

That board is the pits for a cbet unless he got an underpair. I think I might check behind on this flop since we are unlikely to fold much of anything. Now if this flop was 345 with two spades then I'd cbet it.