Henrietta and Harry

[egocidal]

Im sure you philosophy beatniks have heard this before. Hypothetical: Harry looks like a human. In fact, he is similar to the Terminator (other than weighing 1 ton, looking like Ahnold, or talking about the end of times.) He acts like a normal human, knows slang, etc. But he is a machine. He has advanced AI, can "think" for himself. Is harry a person? He is most definitely not human.

Henrietta is a 25 year old woman. In the year 2520 (or whenever), there are vast medical advances. She gets her organs, limbs, everything replaced with machine parts similar to today's hip replacement, except on a larger scale. Everything is changed except her brain. Eventually she gets her neurons in her brain replaced one by one. she now is, in fact, the same thing as Harry.

Who is a person? At what point did Henrietta change to a non person, if at all? This is all hypothetical of course, but it was brought up in class today and I would like to be able to bring a new opinion to the table on Wednesday.

[Phil153]

Our brain is what makes us human.

[Johnny Drama]

did they remove her soul too?

[benjdm]

[ QUOTE ]
did they remove her soul too?

[/ QUOTE ]
How would you check ?

[malorum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did they remove her soul too?

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How would you check ?

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Torture would be the traditional diagnostic tool.

[soon2bepro]

i'd say as long as they have purpose they're all persons

[jthegreat]

[ QUOTE ]
Henrietta is a 25 year old woman. In the year 2520 (or whenever), there are vast medical advances. She gets her organs, limbs, everything replaced with machine parts similar to today's hip replacement, except on a larger scale. Everything is changed except her brain. Eventually she gets her neurons in her brain replaced one by one. she now is, in fact, the same thing as Harry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to have that procedure at some point in the future.

[Borodog]

All life is machinery.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
He acts like a normal human, knows slang, etc. But he is a machine. He has advanced AI, can "think" for himself. Is harry a person? He is most definitely not human.

[/ QUOTE ]

You put preconditions on without defining them. Human? what's that? If an entity thinks and acts like a human what other qualities does it need in order to qualify? Harry seems to have the only ones that matter, or our we going to start defining 'human' merely by their physical parts rather than their mental attributes. Iow, is it that an entity 'looks' like a human that qualifies them?

Your "...definitely not a human" ... why not?

luckyme

[AvivaSimplex]

Questions like this suggest that we don't understand what "personhood" is. Just as there is no meaningful answer to questions like, "Where is blue?" there is no meaningful answer to your question. It may be that personhood is a flawed concept, and the universe is just a bunch of stuff that happens.

[OneForTheMel]

I'd say neither are people, but they both have "souls". Being defined as a human has to do with biological human characteristics, having a soul (to me at least) is consiously effecting your surroundings in any manner.

[bocablkr]

Since you are speculating on the impossible - what if they slowly turned you into a mouse? Would you still be human because you would think like one?

[Piers]

Difficult to say, as the leagal definitions of person will likely change during the next five centeries. Any other defintion of person would depend on your defintion of person.

[egocidal]

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Since you are speculating on the impossible - what if they slowly turned you into a mouse? Would you still be human because you would think like one?

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Dude, don't be an ass /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I just want to be able to say something in class other than "why does this matter?"

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you are speculating on the impossible - what if they slowly turned you into a mouse? Would you still be human because you would think like one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, don't be an ass /images/graemlins/grin.gif. I just want to be able to say something in class other than "why does this matter?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't trying to be one - just trying to point out what is it that makes one human. Robot, mouse what's the difference. Is it our mind, philosophically speaking - yes.
Biologically, not sure. At what point would we no longer be human?

Remember the movie the fly - was he still human?

[egocidal]

never saw the fly. dunno what its about. My first thought when this question was posed to me was that being human meant DNA and RNA, having parents, etc. But henrietta has (had) parents. When her DNA and RNA are taken away, I say shes no longer human. whatever/

[bearly]

you might bring to the table a question such as "what is gained by postulating an essence of a person". after all, can't we do w/ a flexible definition? don't "essences" from plato on cause more trips down the slippery slope into further "things" of an "essential" nature? for instance "soul", "spirit", "will", etc. spend a little time w/ witttgenstein and many others and acquaint yourself w/ the dynamic views of language and meaning. this is a good place to start for you, and it will surely stir up discussion...............b

[mindflayer]

Who is human?

there have not been any religious answers yet... so here goes.

A soul makes us human.
It is the spark of life that we are infused with when we are born.
Self awareness of ourselves or our soul is NOT enough to test human/non human-ness. (otherwise Data would be human and an infant or mental retard would not be)
When that soul leaves our body (permanently), then we cease to become human. (for those who have clinically died for a few minutes)
Our bodies are just shells that house this soul, and I believe that from the R point of view, we can replace Every single body part so that no original DNA remains and you could still have a human with the same soul.

just my 2c.

[Jshuttlesworth]

In my opinion, a thing is "human" just in case it can reproduce with other "humans," with some exceptions.