20th century death

[siegfriedandroy]

is it true that more human lives were lost in the 20th century than in all previous centuries (meaning in the history of the pre-20th century universe) combined?

If so (or if not, although i believe it is so), then what is predominantly responsible for this great acceleration in human loss?

-just saw a thread here regarding the 'morality' of technology (although technology in itself is clearly amoral, in my view). without the automobile, nuclear weapons, etc, etc, etc, would there have been more or less death in the last century.

-religion: What set of beliefs are responsible for the most loss of life in the last century? a) Christianity b) Islam c) Judaism d) atheism (dont care if you dont see it as a religion- all semantics) e) agnosticism (not sure how this differs, ultimately, from atheism) f) hinduism (or other eastern religion) g) other

** in my view, atheism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[51cards]

Um, more life = more death.

What do I win?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
** in my view, socialism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[siegfriedandroy]

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Um, more life = more death.

What do I win?

[/ QUOTE ]

i know. i thought of that, but did not include it in my question. guess i should have asked whether the amount of death increased disproportionately b/c of technology, etc.

dont know what you win, sorry. cant think of anything funny.

[FortunaMaximus]

For sheer numbers, maybe.

Rationally to population, I don't think it's more than a blip on the life/death growth curve.

The world population certainly didn't decrease during '39-45, did it?

It's an unstoppable Malthus. I don't think extinction is even possible at this point.

[siegfriedandroy]

whenever i grace this thread w/ myself, i always look sometime within the subsequent several weeks, and see a bunch of gawdawful responses that i never end up responding to. cant wait to see these in several months. peace

[TimWillTell]

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The world population certainly didn't decrease during '39-45, did it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did; and quite a lot, I might add.

[madnak]

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[ QUOTE ]

The world population certainly didn't decrease during '39-45, did it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did; and quite a lot, I might add.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Compared to, say, the Black Plague, it barely even wiggled.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
** in my view, atheism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL

IT seems like people who claim these kinds of things like to include all deaths that didn't specifically have to do with religion....

atheism CANNOT be a reason to do anything...it does not dictate any actions...

you said "which set of beliefs...?" athiesm is not a set of beliefs

you could include the belief that we should help the fittest survive and the weakest die as a belief...

but not the absense of belief...

A death could be attributed to the absense of a belief IF having said belief would have stopped it..

in the examples you gave..that is certainly not apparent.

my answer would be...

other) the belief that having stuff is good...there's the real killer /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The world population certainly didn't decrease during '39-45, did it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did; and quite a lot, I might add.

[/ QUOTE ]

What madnak said. Don't make me double-check and find out that I'm just a little variant on the actual facts. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
-religion: What set of beliefs are responsible for the most loss of life in the last century? a) Christianity b) Islam c) Judaism d) atheism (dont care if you dont see it as a religion- all semantics) e) agnosticism (not sure how this differs, ultimately, from atheism) f) hinduism (or other eastern religion) g) other

** in my view, atheism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[/ QUOTE ]
[g] other

Gravity. Yes, it must be gravity (at least if your logic is valid). Why?

Because you're agruing that "person A believes X" and "person A is resopnsible for Y" therefore "Belief X is responsible for Y".

A vast majority of killers believe in gravity, and therefore the philosophy of gravity is responsible for almost all killings in the 20th century.

Unless, of course, there's a logical flaw in there somewhere ...

P.S. Hitler was almost certainly not an atheist. The guy (and many other Nazis) professed repeatedly that he believed he was doing God's will (as in the god of the Bible). His version of Christianity may have been twisted, and you could argue that it was so twisted as to no longer be Christian in some way that is meaningful to you, but the guy was a theist for sure.

I'd bold that " " between "a" and "theist" if it was possible. It's amazing how many Christians don't notice it when they talk/read about Hitler.

[TomCollins]

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[ QUOTE ]
-religion: What set of beliefs are responsible for the most loss of life in the last century? a) Christianity b) Islam c) Judaism d) atheism (dont care if you dont see it as a religion- all semantics) e) agnosticism (not sure how this differs, ultimately, from atheism) f) hinduism (or other eastern religion) g) other

** in my view, atheism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[/ QUOTE ]
[g] other

Gravity. Yes, it must be gravity (at least if your logic is valid). Why?

Because you're agruing that "person A believes X" and "person A is resopnsible for Y" therefore "Belief X is responsible for Y".

A vast majority of killers believe in gravity, and therefore the philosophy of gravity is responsible for almost all killings in the 20th century.

Unless, of course, there's a logical flaw in there somewhere ...

[/ QUOTE ]

pwned

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[g] other

Gravity. Yes, it must be gravity (at least if your logic is valid). Why?

Because you're agruing that "person A believes X" and "person A is resopnsible for Y" therefore "Belief X is responsible for Y".

A vast majority of killers believe in gravity, and therefore the philosophy of gravity is responsible for almost all killings in the 20th century.

[/ QUOTE ]

To stick to the OP frame we need to find people that don't believe in something that others do. None of the SS troops believed in the Easter Bunny... If they'd believed in the Easter Bunny they'd be too young and/or stupid to mastermind the holocaust and it wouldn't have happened. Abunnyism isresponsible for the holocaust.

luckyme

[Dominic]

your argument about atheism is preposterous. Atheism is not a belief system. Naming things that Stalin, Mao, etc did NOT believe in as causes of their actions would also have to include The Easter Bunny, little green men from Mars, and Astrology. Among everything else that obviously isn't real. Like God.

[Silent A]

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The world population certainly didn't decrease during '39-45, did it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it did; and quite a lot, I might add.

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's the only figure I could find (from HERE (http://www.susps.org/overview/numbers.html)):
http://www.susps.org/images/worldpopgr.gif

Also, some low resolution data (from HERE (http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/PRB/Journalists/FAQ/Questions/World_Population.htm)):

1920 = 1,860 million
1930 = 2,070 million
1940 = 2,300 million
1950 = 2,519 million
1960 = 3,023 million

not much room for a big drop between '39 and '45, although the slow down is definitely noticable.

[FortunaMaximus]

The actual negative growth may have occured during the year, but as a sum, perhaps, perhaps not. It's just a blip in deaths > births.

[KUJustin]

I believe that historically, with only a few exceptions, there has always been 1 death for each 1 person that is alive. I mean, maybe I'm way off on this.

So I'm not sure if any of the above are causing more people to die. Probably these people were going to die no matter what, just a hunch.

[FortunaMaximus]

Accidents happen, and with longer and longer lifespans, and population growth, the ratio stretches to the point the growth enters an runaway process. It's just a basic exponential growth with lagging zero-sum catch-up.

As for whether there are individuals that somehow are able to violate this principle...

It's possible but not probable.

[TimWillTell]

u r right, I misread the word decrease. (increase I thought it said)

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
Hitler was almost certainly not an atheist. The guy (and many other Nazis) professed repeatedly that he believed he was doing God's will (as in the god of the Bible).

[/ QUOTE ]Wow.

Why would you say such a thing? The NSDAP and its founder were totally against the Jewish-inspired Bible and the whole piety of the Christian Church. They put up with the German Christian churches only as long as these were not impeding the good work of National Socialism. (A lot of church leaders in Germany at the time instinctively sided with the fanatically anti-communist side, which was the Nazi side. It was a polarised time.)

[ QUOTE ]
[Hitler's] version of Christianity may have been twisted, and you could argue that it was so twisted as to no longer be Christian in some way that is meaningful to you, but the guy was a theist for sure.

[/ QUOTE ] He was a theist in that he proclaimed the existence of some Germano-centric god, but he was not a Christian. It's a large tent but not that large.

Mickey Brausch

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]

http://www.susps.org/images/worldpopgr.gif

[/ QUOTE ]This is a very comforting graph because it shows that things are bound to return to normal quite soon.

..Wait.

[siegfriedandroy]

[ QUOTE ]
is it true that more human lives were lost in the 20th century than in all previous centuries (meaning in the history of the pre-20th century universe) combined?

If so (or if not, although i believe it is so), then what is predominantly responsible for this great acceleration in human loss?

-just saw a thread here regarding the 'morality' of technology (although technology in itself is clearly amoral, in my view). without the automobile, nuclear weapons, etc, etc, etc, would there have been more or less death in the last century.

-religion: What set of beliefs are responsible for the most loss of life in the last century? a) Christianity b) Islam c) Judaism d) atheism (dont care if you dont see it as a religion- all semantics) e) agnosticism (not sure how this differs, ultimately, from atheism) f) hinduism (or other eastern religion) g) other

** in my view, atheism is responsible for the most needless death in the past century- stalin, hitler, mao, etc. perhaps some will say that hitler was not an atheist- i am not sure. but he was clearly 'godless', as i understand the term.

[/ QUOTE ]

most of you suk at thinking. pretty incredibly gawdawful. u post [censored] you dont even know wtffwtfukaljalfjwtf u r saying. many of u suk at life suk at existing. bunch of femmes. pwned. pwned. ridiculous. he was like 25/17 horrid at poker. most of u suk. u dont get it. u read a chess book think u r above 2k fukn fools. bullsh*t. atheism!! heyeh [censored] u. morality is what u determine asses

[FortunaMaximus]

Preach it, kid. But I don't think you'll get your point across. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

What happened this time?

[madnak]

Mock on, Mock on, Voltaire, Rousseau.

[FortunaMaximus]

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Mock on, Mock on, Voltaire, Rousseau.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude's starting to remind me of somebody I never met. What's the haps, mad?

[Nielsio]

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** in my view, collectivism is responsible for the most needless death

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FYP

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FYFYP

[siegfriedandroy]

wtf does your data matter? millions died unnecessarily.