$50 NL FTP: KK Line Check

[ASPoker8]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif ($4.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($10.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($24.5, 2 players)
Hero checks

Most Interested in River check.

My thinking: Check and let him bluff a draw at me.

[wcaines]

I think I like a b/f line better. Stack sizes would help, but what he moves ai on the river after smelling weakness? Can you call an ai bluff? I think you get called by worse hands and feel comfortable folding to a big raise.

[uminchu]

meh i like it, the made flush raises the turn and the ace of clubs will shove the river here

NH

[pokerchap]

how do you know hes going to bluff? this is just losing value. i think i 1/2 pot it here to get called by weak hands and maybe still induce a bluff. is this a decent play?

[ASPoker8]

Yeah I was hoping to induce a bluff from either a missed club draw or some sort of 2-pair who feels frisky now that the club draw missed.

Anyways, anyone know a good converter for FTP cash hands?

Neils ignores stack sizes :/

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I was hoping to induce a bluff from either a missed club draw or some sort of 2-pair who feels frisky now that the club draw missed.

Anyways, anyone know a good converter for FTP cash hands?

Neils ignores stack sizes :/

[/ QUOTE ]

no it doesnt. you have to click show stack sizes

[iraise50]

Well, you're only beat by QT or two clubs. Obviously, if that is the case he flopped it, and is letting you do his bidding by his smooth calls. I usually play at $10NL, $2NL and only occassionally at $25NL, and that's on UB, not Full Tilt, so I will say my bit, then ask you a couple of questions.

First, in principle I like your line. I think it most unlikely you are beat. But, if you are beat, you will get c/r ed and be pretty upset, if you're ahead I am doubting he will suddenly become aggressive and try to bluff at the pot. Since no history or reads are posted, I'm guessing you recently sat down to play...villain is a stranger or something similar. I would not check, but bet half to 3/4 of the pot.

Questions:

If you are villain and you DO have QT and called the PF action, with intent to steal later, or you called Ax clubs, you got a great flop. You're smooth calling hoping ASPoker8 will catch enough to keep betting and breaking apart on your big hand. You're going to jsut smooth call right? You didn't post stack sizes either, if I'm deep stacked and villain is, and villain is known to keep betting, I will frequently let them do the lifting and when they slow down (like your river check) bet the highest amount I figure will be called.

So, do you see that where you play?

Isn't smooth calling a more hostile action, or at least more suspicious usually? How many donks bluff incessantly, then pick up a hand and suddenly can't bet to get chips into a pot when thy actually ahve a really good hand? Lots on UB where I play.

Is it actually +EV to check in hope of a c/r or c/c here? I'm assuming you would raise if you were bet say half the pot?

We are dealing with this hand with little information, stack sizes and reads. With that in mind, I'm hoping he had some draw and didn't think about pot odds...so I'd go ahead and bet, and not call.

[ASPoker8]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I was hoping to induce a bluff from either a missed club draw or some sort of 2-pair who feels frisky now that the club draw missed.

Anyways, anyone know a good converter for FTP cash hands?

Neils ignores stack sizes :/

[/ QUOTE ]

no it doesnt. you have to click show stack sizes

[/ QUOTE ]

touche. sorry. newbie to FTP. I am a PP yuppy who got pwned by Frist.

[wcaines]

you will get c/r ed and be pretty upset, if you're ahead I am doubting he will suddenly become aggressive and try to bluff at the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

villian is in position here no?

[ymu]

I think this is villain dependent. If they can't let go of TP, bet it - if they will bluff a busted draw when checked to - check it.

I had a more or less identical hand earlier at the other end of the pack with 33 on a 2d3d5d board. Bet it the same as the OP* on flop and blank turn, villain called on every street - and folded to a half pot river bet. Against this particular villain I really regretted the river bet - he loves to bluff big and will do so at any sign of weakness and I would have been very comfortable check/calling a pot-sized bet or even a push from him. Against more passive villains, checking the river is losing value.

*except I bet pot on flop and close to pot on turn - this board is way too draw heavy to bet smaller IMO.

[Dunkman]

If villian is aggressive it's a good play...I play this limit and use it quite frequently with great success. Player dependent though, the cs who will call down with a J here isn't the guy to try it on...but most people hanging around on this board will be drawing, so I like it.

[iraise50]

Yes, he's in position, but he also has just been calling. I dunno, in the absence of more information I bet this river. Again, no stacks or reads...

[Art Vandalay]

I'd pot the flop and turn, but i don't mind the river check. I really don't think you're losing a lot of value. Is a smaller set or 2 pair going to call here enough of the time that it makes it +ev when you come up against a flush? I don't really think so.

[josh_x]

I bet, because a lot of the draws he have also have pairs, so if he has something like AJ with the ace of clubs, he will probably check behind and hope that his jack is good, whereas if he had the ace of clubs but no pair then he might indeed bluff it Same thing with heaps of hands like KQ or whatever. Plus it's also lame and obvious to check something good there and i question whether your opponenet will really bluff it enough. Also against the marginal made hands that make up a lot of his range you obv want to bet for value.

So i bet kinda weak like half pot or something and call a raise.

[Wondercall]

Block bet river, like 12 bucks.

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking: Check and let him bluff a draw at me.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds like a good line here. If you lead the river you'll get raised by better hands and miss value on possible bluffs by busted draws. Also I think your turn bet is a little light, I'd make it 9-10.

[maso]

Stack sizes important post them. I like this more line if the board if the flop was two tone. You have charged the draws nicely. I think block river for $10 worse hands will call like a two pair maybe AcKx but probably not given pf action. Better hands most certainly will raise and let us know we are beat. I doubt villain has the gumption or stupidity to bluffraise a triple barrel.