TT all in preflop

[HitNRunPoster]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">UTG ($36.85)</font>
MP ($45.48)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($36.61)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($49.50)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB ($9.09)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $2</font>, Hero (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $8.59 (All-In), UTG calls $8.59, MP folds, Button calls $7.09, Hero calls $47.50 (All-In), UTG calls $27.76 (All-In), Button calls $27.52 (All-In).

Final Pot: $132.55

[/ QUOTE ]

[monkeymaps]

So you pushed here preflop? youre pretty deep I see no value in this only getting called by better hands or AK

[pokerchap]

didn't you post this hand like 2 days ago? must of been someone else. definitley not a push here. you are dominated.

[74o_Clownsuit]

Looks like typical action on a play money table.

[pokerchap]

lol is the whole table AI here?

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like typical action on a play money table.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT /images/graemlins/grin.gif

OP, this is spew. You may sometimes have the best hand right now but IMO any A-J on any street will sink you like 95% surely.

[Jouster777]

I think the main concern is a higher PP...I'll happily get it in here vs. a bunch of overcards:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

703,733,184 games 5.531 secs 127,234,348 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 22.5821 % 21.75% 00.83% { AKo }
Hand 2: 23.4290 % 23.12% 00.31% { KQs }
Hand 3: 20.9067 % 20.31% 00.60% { AJs }
Hand 4: 33.0822 % 33.00% 00.08% { TT }

[n1nj4.br]

is very likely that hero is against overpairs.

[Vammakala]

MP isn't AI.

[HitNRunPoster]

whoever moved this, I'm pissed.

I specifically wanted more experienced players to see this, although I admit that it's unusual for the stakes that you guys would play.

FWIW, results are that I got called by a bunch of retarded hands and took down a massive pot.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
whoever moved this, I'm pissed.

I specifically wanted more experienced players to see this, although I admit that it's unusual for the stakes that you guys would play.

FWIW, results are that I got called by a bunch of retarded hands and took down a massive pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think there are plenty of experience posters here. doin that is lame. post tha hands where they belong. i find it as an insult that we at unl "arent experienced enough" for this hand. WTF

[HitNRunPoster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoever moved this, I'm pissed.

I specifically wanted more experienced players to see this, although I admit that it's unusual for the stakes that you guys would play.

FWIW, results are that I got called by a bunch of retarded hands and took down a massive pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think there are plenty of experience posters here. doin that is lame. post tha hands where they belong. i find it as an insult that we at unl "arent experienced enough" for this hand. WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Yeah, that's fair. Bad terminology on my part. What I meant to say was:

A lot of the guys in the SSNL forum are guys that I've read posts from in the digests. Basically people who I trust. I haven't really had the same experience at this forum, because I don't read this forum (or SSNL) very much at all.

Also, the first thread was only getting attention by maybe 3-4 guys, who were all basically saying the same thing. No one did a range, no one walked through the hand to try to put different players on different hands, etc. etc. It was just a pretty lame thread in general.

Although the advice may have been sound, no one analysed the hand, so we don't know.

Also, it's perfectly reasonable to get a second opinion. There are other forums than uNL, and other forums than 2p2.

Saying that the guys in SSNL are more experienced than the guys in uNL is a dick move, though. I appologize for that.

FWIW, this thread is slightly better than last one. But it's still useless.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoever moved this, I'm pissed.

I specifically wanted more experienced players to see this, although I admit that it's unusual for the stakes that you guys would play.

FWIW, results are that I got called by a bunch of retarded hands and took down a massive pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think there are plenty of experience posters here. doin that is lame. post tha hands where they belong. i find it as an insult that we at unl "arent experienced enough" for this hand. WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Yeah, that's fair. Bad terminology on my part. What I meant to say was:

A lot of the guys in the SSNL forum are guys that I've read posts from in the digests. Basically people who I trust. I haven't really had the same experience at this forum, because I don't read this forum (or SSNL) very much at all.

Also, the first thread was only getting attention by maybe 3-4 guys, who were all basically saying the same thing. No one did a range, no one walked through the hand to try to put different players on different hands, etc. etc. It was just a pretty lame thread in general.

Although the advice may have been sound, no one analysed the hand, so we don't know.

Also, it's perfectly reasonable to get a second opinion. There are other forums than uNL, and other forums than 2p2.

Saying that the guys in SSNL are more experienced than the guys in uNL is a dick move, though. I appologize for that.

FWIW, this thread is slightly better than last one. But it's still useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

thnx for tha explanation. no worries.

ill try to comment on the hand after i get back in my room from a [censored] fire alarm /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[108]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
whoever moved this, I'm pissed.

I specifically wanted more experienced players to see this, although I admit that it's unusual for the stakes that you guys would play.

FWIW, results are that I got called by a bunch of retarded hands and took down a massive pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
i think there are plenty of experience posters here. doin that is lame. post tha hands where they belong. i find it as an insult that we at unl "arent experienced enough" for this hand. WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Yeah, that's fair. Bad terminology on my part. What I meant to say was:

A lot of the guys in the SSNL forum are guys that I've read posts from in the digests. Basically people who I trust. I haven't really had the same experience at this forum, because I don't read this forum (or SSNL) very much at all.

Also, the first thread was only getting attention by maybe 3-4 guys, who were all basically saying the same thing. No one did a range, no one walked through the hand to try to put different players on different hands, etc. etc. It was just a pretty lame thread in general.

Although the advice may have been sound, no one analysed the hand, so we don't know.

Also, it's perfectly reasonable to get a second opinion. There are other forums than uNL, and other forums than 2p2.

Saying that the guys in SSNL are more experienced than the guys in uNL is a dick move, though. I appologize for that.

FWIW, this thread is slightly better than last one. But it's still useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you'll lose money fairly at higher limits if you habitually get your money in here and expect villians to flip over A6o and KJ everytime.

This might have worked this time, and it may even work plenty of times, but I don't think 'playing the stakes' as such is a good strategy (specifically if you're trying to improve).

[pokerchap]

YOU WON?

i quit poker

[HitNRunPoster]

playing the best you can to game conditions is perfect poker and the hallmark of expert play.

[108]

[ QUOTE ]
playing the best you can to game conditions is perfect poker and the hallmark of expert play.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, let me follow on by saying, if you're sure of your opponents here, by all means. But at some point you have to give villians some credit is more what I mean to say.

[uminchu]

I disagree with everyone else here and think you made the right play here for the simple reason that if either the original raiser or cold caller had a big pair they would have already put there big raise in PF to push the other two players heads up and get the dead money in the pot to go with their domination of the shortstack, hence, you almost definately have the best hand unless someone has exactly JJ , You will get called by the donkeys with their AK and AQ hands often enough with all the money in the pot for this to be very highly +EV in my opinion

and FWIW i did this exact same thing at a 25nl table against a shorty and got called all in by 77 who said "he put me on AK"

[Dulce Liquido]

You didn't provide any reads, I think that makes this a pretty easy fold when 200BB's deep.

Your flipping or dominated, neither of which is good.

[Antinome]

The BB could be doing this with anything. Face it, he's a shortstack. TT is probably 60/40 against his range. With all the dead money in the pot, I totally understand pushing this.

Niether Button nor UTG made any move to isolate, so they don't have JJ-KK. AA might call, welcoming action if the player was advanced. That's not a move I see often at this limit. People hate losing with AA. I rule that out too. Therefore you have the best hand, and pushing is +EV whether they fold or call. We want folds, of course. The only likely hand I think ought to consider calling behind you is AK, and if they look at that action I think they should conclude that a lot of their outs are gone, and fold.

Nice hand.

[Roadstar]

I bet you were looking for a

"good push for metagame considerations" from higher stakes players?
LOL

[HitNRunPoster]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet you were looking for a

"good push for metagame considerations" from higher stakes players?
LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well my thoughts on the hand were kinda like antinome's, but I was a little concerned at utg, but of course I wasn't concerned at all about the button. Keep in mind that TT has 20% equity vs AA when you look at this hand. I mean, even if I screw up it won't cost TOO much.

I think when I stoved it with some reasonable range for all the players concerned I still got a nice equity, somewhere between 20-30, but that was done after the fact.

Now for the fun part... would you guys do this with 88? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Roadstar]

QFT

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't provide any reads

[/ QUOTE ]

[MJL]

1. I am a mid stakes player who lives in the US so I have almost no money online now. Thus I am playing micro stakes for fun.

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't provide any reads

[/ QUOTE ]


2. This looks like BB has a pocket pair or possibly a big A. UTG is probably on a med A or sm/med pair, no way he should have limp called with any hand. The button is almost certainly on a big A or a pair smaller than yours. Very unlikely AA,KK,QQ wouldn't push to isolate. JJ may just call. Good news the chance of an A hitting will be low because I suspect two players have one. With the pot this big, $27.27 by the time it got back to you, you have to figure one of them will be calling an additional $27 after that action. If you will be all in either way push but if you are willing to fold with over cards or a scary board, the prudent thing to do, then call and decide. TT is weakend with 3 players and more so with 4.

[HitNRunPoster]

Well, ok, if I call pf, then what? Here's my plan:

Axx: check down.

Kxx/Qxx: fold if bet into (anything other than minbet), push if checked to. I'd probably pop a minraise for FSD in on the turn if I get a retarded bet against me.

Jxx or less: push/call push.

Does this sound ok?

--Dave.

[MJL]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, ok, if I call pf, then what? Here's my plan:

Axx: check down.

Kxx/Qxx: fold if bet into (anything other than minbet), push if checked to. I'd probably pop a minraise for FSD in on the turn if I get a retarded bet against me.

Jxx or less: push/call push.

Does this sound ok?

--Dave.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop a T and put the money in. Over cards ck fold unless you have an OESD and the bet is small enough. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a QJ9 because at these stakes a KT is possible. I would prefer KQJ but remember its very likely one or two of your Ace outs are in the other players hands so don't pay too much. Flopping a set is the plan. If the flop is all rags I would likely gamble with my overcards. Expect a call or two from AK or maybe a bigger overpair. The way they played you are either behind or they are fools and will try to chase you down. Be prepared to reload.

Remember poker is about maximizing the money on your good hands but also minimizing the loss on you losing hands. You will occassionally throw away the best hand. Example the flop has a J and the button bets. He may only have 88 or AK but with 4 in a fold is prudent.