Clear case of negative implied odds?

[uminchu]

Im just checking up, with this hand Its a pretty clear cut fold on the flop here even though im getting just about five to one right? I have no real draw and the A and K of diamonds cards that could come and force me to fold possibly to lots of heat so i just let this go on the flop
anybody do anything different

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($37.20)
CO ($26.55)
Button ($11.35)
SB ($18.10)
BB ($26.80)
UTG ($25.95)
UTG+1 ($17.10)
MP1 ($24.15)
MP2 ($9.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $1.75, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75.

Flop: ($8.35) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $2</font>, MP2 folds, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: $10.35

[avfletch]

It's a tricky one but I'd be tempted to treat this weak bet with the contempt it deserves and make a big raise. No one has shown any actual interest in this pot, there's a lot of money out there and you've almost always got a few outs even if it goes really wrong.

[Jouster777]

I'd call it dirty outs rather than negative implied odds (which I use to describe a vulnerable made hand) but I agree its not a call. If a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or an A hits you'll have to worry about flushes or A9 so you won't be able to really push the action to make the implied odds you need for the call.

So its not a call but AV's idea of a strong raise is interesting. I fold probably just fold though.

[avfletch]

I'm off my game and overbetting/overvaluing everything atm so I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

[kazana]

I'd be tempted to raise that bet, too. But regarding the fact that he led (albeit it a weak sauce lead) into 3 other players from 2nd position, this could mean there's trouble on the horizon.
So, I'd rather fold this time.

[Reef]

just fold

[-brew-]

there are a few things going on here. one is the call the villain made...why did he do it? well for one he had just about the right odds to make the call with just about any two cards, so I think that your preflop raise should have been bigger, by the time it got back around to MP2 I think that just about all the callers had the right odds...i could be off by .25-.50 here but i am thinking that everyone's call was good because there was enough in there to begin with.

Then of course, as you put it, implied odds sorta sucked. Looking at this board I you could almost put him on anything but that raise looks like a blocking bet to me, however there are better places to make your stand than having Ahi with K kicker, the only way this hand was playable for you is if all the money was going in the middle and you picked up the pot, IMHO that wasn't going to happen and you made the right decision.

Conclusion
Preflop weak, post flop good.

[uminchu]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm off my game and overbetting/overvaluing everything atm so I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

[/ QUOTE ]

you know i was contemplating a raise here, but with four peeps in the pot it was just too much heat, i really didnt expect that many calls, but once they did call i essentially resigned myself to folding without an A or K or some kind of draw on the flop, i would be much more apt to insta raise if the flop had been rainbow but meh

thanks for the replies though

[uminchu]

[ QUOTE ]


Conclusion
Preflop weak, post flop good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I made a huge raise preflop, only three limpers in front and so i tacked on an extra BB just for good measure, the cold calls all the way along the line sucked but meh i mean its just AK, for those who say preflop is too small what do you raise to here 3 or 3.5 or do you think 2.5 is going to force these guys out cuz i certainly dont if they call for 2 they will call for two fitty

[-brew-]

Technically you did make a huge preflop bet, but i tend to think that if you made it to say 3 or even 3.5 you could scoop it. Sometimes even a push is ok, not so much in this scenario.

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]
Technically you did make a huge preflop bet, but i tend to think that if you made it to say 3 or even 3.5 you could scoop it. Sometimes even a push is ok, not so much in this scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]
The preflop raise was fine, if anything a little too big. It's a tad results oriented to say that it would have worked better if it had been bigger just because it got called in 3 spots.

I'd be tempted to raise this flop lead against some villains because the weak lead screams draw or less than TP and they would fold to a pot-sized raise - but others get stubborn with draws or lead weak to get a raise, and I don't like many of my outs, so a fold is fine.