50NL - is this call a spew?

[cgiblaarg]

Had just joined the table, no reads on villain. At the time I thought I had enough outs to call, but looking at this in my session review i'm not so sure.


Pacific Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $41.03
UTG+1: $48.5
Hero: $50
MP2: $66.95
MP3: $18.5
CO: $28.98
Button: $54.19
SB: $55.55
BB: $16.5

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($10.75, 4 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8</font>, MP3 calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises all-in $38.53</font>, Hero ?

[pokerchap]

fold. you definitley can't call this. Queens and Aces cant be considered outs here

[ajmargarine]

That's a nasty flop to CB 4-way. As played, someone else can run the numbers, but you got c/r'd here. It might be slightly different if you get raised behind you. You PFR, then bet a multiway pot with a nasty flop. I'd say he can beat AA here and if he can beat AA you don't have odds.

[Marshall28]

u should probably check fold flop ... or check call if u face a small bet and have good odds ... the problem w/ any flop that has 3 to a straight is that there are too many possible hands that beat u.

910 9j 10j qj kj aj 1010 jj qq kk aa ... almost anything anyone can have on this flop has you destroyed. your only hope is to catch a king and hope the board doesnt pair.

and definitely fold to the checkraise

[bmk67]

One pair is not likely to win this, aces and queens cannot be considered full outs. Neither can eights. Your only sure outs here are kings and running clubs, at least the eight of which that don't pair the board.

Fold.

P.S. Don't c-bet this flop OOP multi-way.

[cgiblaarg]

Thanks for the responses. Learning when not to c-bet is something i have to do. I mainly did it in this hand because my c-bets had been taking down so many pots at this table.

At the time I didn't actually count my overcards as outs, and what changed my decision into a call was mp3 being stuck in the middle and bloating the pot.

The pot was at $65 and it was $30 to me to call, and I figured that mp3 would commit his remaining $8 too.

I gave myself 9 outs which was too many /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stsharp413]

As a simple rule, c-b against one player is typically ok (although much like anything you don't want to do it every time), against 2 players is still ok if the situation is right, but against more than that, you need to proceed with a lot of caution and avoid it completely in a lot of spots, especially OOP as the other poster said.

[Vammakala]

I don't think I'd ever c-bet this in 4-way pot. I think that was your mistake and lead you into trouble. The worst case scenario is that you have 3 outs. And you're an underdog against QJ type of hands that he could easily have (also in which case you only have 4 outs, since the other 4 are for split which cuts down your equity significantly).

You have to fold this. Not c-betting in the first place will save you lots of grief. If it was HU, I probably would c-bet, but even 3-way, that's VERY ugly flop to be semibluffing against multiple opponents.