If Ancient People Rejected An Obvious God

[David Sklansky]

as Not Ready points out occurred frequently, (he mentioned it in order to show that it isn't scientific evidence that turns some away from God,) then whats's this stuff about "God will not be tested" (with controlled experiments or the like) or "If God completely reveals himself, he can no longer be sure you have faith"

It seems odd that a great concern of God would be that humans display a willingness to believe in him on flimsy evidence as opposed to a williness to embrace him knowing he exists.

But it is odder still that God would have these concerns ONLY LATELY. Why would he all of a sudden put another requirement on humans (believe in him in spite of the fact he will allow no "test" to indicate his existence) when he didn't do that for thousands of years?

One answer might be that ancient people actually didn't see the obvious proof that Not Ready claims they did. God was withholding it from them too.

There are other solutions as well but I'll let others elaborate.

[51cards]

Occam stayed over last night, I think he left his blade. I'll go grab it.

[PLOlover]

One thing not many people seem to know about the bible is that Moses was selected by the jews to go talk to God because God came down and talked to everybody at first and everybody was so terrified they said no no go away we'll send someone to talk to you and they picked Moses.

[revots33]

This is just a shot in the dark, but maybe god feels he doesn't need to show himself now that's he's sent his son to earth? As in, "OK humans, here's the LAST time I'm gonna show myself. But it's a doozy. I'm sending my son down to mingle with you on earth. If you still don't believe in me after I sacrifice my own son, you're a lost cause."

[madnak]

Uh... But all the people who saw the "doozy" up and died.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh... But all the people who saw the "doozy" up and died.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and all those that saw the doozy didn't believe him either. I mean he surely wasn't the first nor the last to make those claims.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh... But all the people who saw the "doozy" up and died.

[/ QUOTE ]

True but Christians would say the gospel accounts should be enough proof for the rest of us.

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing not many people seem to know about the bible is that Moses was selected by the jews to go talk to God because God came down and talked to everybody at first and everybody was so terrified they said no no go away we'll send someone to talk to you and they picked Moses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you quote a scripture reference for this?

[BluffTHIS!]

That's not in scripture. He likely is referring to Jewish accounts in the Talmud, written a thousand years after the events it purports to relate.

[JayTee]

Perhaps as people get smarter "God" has to prevent them from disproving him. "God" vs. Evolution. And by "God" I mean the people who claim to know the desires of the invisible creator.

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
That's not in scripture. He likely is referring to Jewish accounts in the Talmud, written a thousand years after the events it purports to relate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Bluff. I know it's not in scripture. That was my point exactly.

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems odd that a great concern of God would be that humans display a willingness to believe in him on flimsy evidence as opposed to a williness to embrace him knowing he exists.

But it is odder still that God would have these concerns ONLY LATELY. Why would he all of a sudden put another requirement on humans (believe in him in spite of the fact he will allow no "test" to indicate his existence) when he didn't do that for thousands of years?

[/ QUOTE ]
Been there. (In case you missed it). (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=scimathphil&Number=73 83029&Searchpage=5&Main=7383029&Words=txag007&topi c=&Search=true#Post7383029) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MidGe]

From your link:

[ QUOTE ]
God is no different today than he was in the Old Testament. He whispers.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should quiet down and listen!

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you quote a scripture reference for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no biblical scholar so I may be a little off but exodus 20. I guess god was gonna talk to everybody but the people got frightened and said no, just you Moses, you go and tell us what he said.

-----------------------------------
When the people witnessed the thunder and lightning, the trumpet blast and the mountain smoking, they all feared and trembled. So they took up a position much farther away
19
and said to Moses, "You speak to us, and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we shall die."
20
Moses answered the people, "Do not be afraid, for God has come to you only to test you and put his fear upon you, lest you should sin."
21
Still the people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the cloud where God was.

[PLOlover]

But my point of course was to OP question as to why god doesn't show himself today, well, according to the bible he did, but the people really didn't like it.

I mean, you might think your wife will really like a new vacuum for xmas, but I doubt you will make that mistake twice lol.

In any case not a rigorous argument or anything, just something I thought of.

[Semtex]

Personally I think God set the universe in motion and thats it. I doubt God controls much of anything at this stage. The Universe seems to be too complex and chaotic of a system for that.

Why should humans be special? There are no doubt other civilizations around the universe, so why should God make such a big deal about us? Whether we believe in God or not is of no consequence to God IMO.

Unless the apocalypse is on its way, and I am therefore proven wrong, rejection of God is evident throughout the world and there hasn't seemed to be any consequence so far.

[andyfox]

Perhaps ancient people interpreted natural phenomena, about which they knew not the scientific explanation, as evidence of God revealing himself. There is a famous incident of Columbus threatening the Indians that he would make the sky go dark in the middle of the day if they did not obey him. Lo and behold, he kept his word the next day, revealing his god-like powers (and hiding his charlatanism) to people who did not know how to predict eclipses.

[BluffTHIS!]

PLOlover,

By the time of the quotation you gave from Exodus, Moses and to a lesser extent Aaron had already been the intermediaries between the people and God as they had been chosen for that role. So there was no precedent for God speaking to the people en masse that I recall.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
PLOlover,

By the time of the quotation you gave from Exodus, Moses and to a lesser extent Aaron had already been the intermediaries between the people and God as they had been chosen for that role. So there was no precedent for God speaking to the people en masse that I recall.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, it is unclear to me whether god was gonna speak to the people at exodus 20 or whether he just wanted them near to have them witness his power.

In any case the people were too afraid to remain in the prescribed vicinity and they put distance between them and god and told Moses they would accept him as the go-between.

Note that before this many had questioned Moses's authority.

So you know, somewhat interesting.

Also the whole psychological thing of not being able to recognize something you're not ready for, and by the way Freud wrote a whole book about Moses and psychology.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
That's not in scripture. He likely is referring to Jewish accounts in the Talmud, written a thousand years after the events it purports to relate.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't the Talmud still scripture?

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
isn't the Talmud still scripture?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's my understanding that the talmud is to jews what catchecisms and papal bulls/decrees are to catholics.