10NL : Badly played AJ

[Imrahil]

I played this hand horribly.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($2)
Button ($15.25)
Hero ($14.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button calls $0.10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.5</font>, BB calls $0.40, Button calls $0.40.

Flop: ($1.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1</font>, BB folds, Button calls $1.

Turn: ($3.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $5</font>, Hero calls $3.

River: ($13.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8.75 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $22.25

[Shaddux]

Yeah this looks pretty bad.

So what's your question about the hand?

[Dogballs88]

I agree, but it wasn't that atrocious. A flat call on the flop, followed by a small turn raise, followed by a river push is indicative of a very strong hand. I would have done something more decisive on the turn, however - whether it be pushing or folding, depending on your read on Villian - vs. an unknown I probably fold here, due to the flush possibility on top of set possibility. By being passive, you're still really not sure where you are in the hand and now are totally clueless when you improved on the river.

Again, you put yourself if a tough spot flat-calling the turn when you hit trips on the river - Villian could easily have a flush or boat. The pot is too big and Villian' stack too short for an effective blocking bet. I actually don't mind the river laydown given his line.

[Preytar]

I am very new to NL, so take this for what it is...my opinion, and quite possibly the wrong answer.

Villain is saying "I have a strong hand" on the turn. My mind instantly screams flush, but what else would he play this way?

Is he strong enough to represent the flush when he has a set? We have the nut diamond. Is he the type of player that will fold a small made flush to our push? Probably not at this limit, but that is something to take into consideration.

The river check gives him an opening to push you off of whatever you have. We can't beat anything here other than a bluff.

As played and with no reads and given the stacks and bets, I fold the turn getting 3.5 to 1. I wouldn't call the turn bet if I had any intention of folding the river. What can come that isn't a bad card for us other than a non-board pairing diamoind?


Edited to remove a duplicate word.
Brian

[Jigsaws]

Fold to the turn raise. Baluga theorem.

[Preytar]

I just looked this up. Nice.


Baluga Theorem (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=6607951)

Brian

[Imrahil]

Should I just check/call the turn? Or just check/fold it?

[alphatmw]

fold to the turn raiase with the ace of diamonds? how stupid are you guys?

[Imrahil]

[ QUOTE ]
fold to the turn raiase with the ace of diamonds? how stupid are you guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm just wondering if you guys realize I have the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif?

[alphatmw]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just check/call the turn? Or just check/fold it?

[/ QUOTE ] you should bet it. you have TPTK and you just picked up the nut flush draw. he could easily have a weaker jack, or less likely, a straight draw. if he DOES have the flush you have redraws. every advice that has been given up to here has been terrible.

[Preytar]

I bet/fold. I hate it, but I don't think we are getting the right price, and the implied odds aren't there. I pick a better spot.

Brian

[alphatmw]

you played this hand fine. only very small changes in how i would play it:

raise to 0.35 or 0.4 preflop. you are OOP and 0.5 makes it a slightly larger pot than you should be comfortable with. of course, this depends on your usual raising standards, but for me, i'd make it 3.5-4x bb.

bet more on the flop. about 1.15-1.25. $1 into a 1.5 pot is too small to gain a lot of information about his hand because its a relatively weak looking bet.

bet $3 on the turn. very strong looking bet and if he raises now, then you can be almost sure he has a flush. if he min-raises, you should still have odds to call.

check or block the river is fine. after he pushes, you really need to think about what he's done in the past. he knows you don't have a flush so he could very well be pushing a smaller jack. this could very well be a call in the right circumstances.

[Preytar]

I'm not looking for a fight. I'm new to NL, so this is a serious question.

Do you immediately discount a flopped set? What range can we put villain on here when he calls the flop and raises the turn? I know people love easily donminated hands like K-J and Q-J, and they quite often overplay them.

Brian

[alphatmw]

sets are possible, but i'd expect them to raise on a draw heavy board. if he DID have a set, whats with the small raise on the turn when the scare card comes? what not see if the board pairs on the river, or see how hero decides to act?

in short, not raising the flop and making a tiny raise on the turn are what leads me to think a set is less likely. i wanna note that if the turn was a total blank and he made a small raise, i really start to expect a set.

on the other hand, i expect K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and T /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif to be played EXACTLY as villian played it.

[Jigsaws]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I'm just wondering if you guys realize I have the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif?

[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't notice that. Then your line is fine.

[Rochus]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you immediately discount a flopped set? What range can we put villain on here when he calls the flop and raises the turn? I know people love easily donminated hands like K-J and Q-J, and they quite often overplay them.

Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

Flopped set is one of the possibilities, a lot of players will reraise the turn when the flush cards hit to see where they stand with a set. Remember this is 10NL and villain can have just about everything without reads. Range on turn is probebly some funky two pair, flush or set or a weaker J/x.. in other words a huge range and most of the time when you get reraised on the turn you are either wa/wb. You've got the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif so I calling his minraise is a good play here and the river fold is obvious. You played it fine..

I play 10NL and 25NL myself and most of the time a turn raise means the guy has you beat. If you did not have the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and you're thinking he might have KJ or QJ I'd rather wait for a better spot to get my money in. Playing ABC TAG Poker works fine on these levels.

My question is for the rest of you is, am I giving Villain a too broad handrange here?

[alphatmw]

given it's 3 handed, i think your hand range is either perfect or too small. how often does villian have nothing but decides to bluff (albiet badly) the turn card? you can't say never. hands like K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif will often play the same way. many times the villian has a medium strength hand and raises small to make you check the river for a free showdown. and after you check the 2nd jack, EVERY jack pushes on the river. the river is not an auto fold.

[Imrahil]

Villain is 33/6.3 with a 0.7 total agression factor over 111 hands.

[Rochus]

In that case you played it fine.

[Shaddux]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 33/6.3 with a 0.7 total agression factor over 111 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't think that this was useful info for your original post?

[Imrahil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 33/6.3 with a 0.7 total agression factor over 111 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't think that this was useful info for your original post?

[/ QUOTE ]

No cause I was steaming and couldn't think straight. Anyways, it's interesting to hear what lines people would take vs. an unkown.