Why play pot limit instead of no limit?

[spector]

I have never really played any pot limit but I jumped on a table yesterday and I really dont see how my strategy would play when playing pot limit. The only noticeable difference in my game most of the time was not being able to raise preflop quite as much as I would have liked. Obviously some post flop value bets arent as big but usually you get all the money in when you want to just like NL. What do you do differently when playing potlimit?

[xwillience]

Pot Control. other than that I have no idea.

[kurto]

I think potlimit is better for small-ball players. You also have to be more skilled at manipulating potsize.

I've been accidentally sitting at PL tables and now I kind of like it. Though I don't like that if I have pocket AAs UTG, I can't raise enough to limit the pool... I do like that the players seemed MUCH looser. I had an entire table seeing over 30% of the flop and 2 90%s at one table!?!?!

Also- to manipulate potsize, there is more reraising PF (even small increments).

[4_2_it]

I'm a pot limit novice, but I would think that check raising is something that you would need to do more often.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a pot limit novice, but I would think that check raising is something that you would need to do more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. You have to hope there's some aggression after you or you may end up seeing 7 people to the flop with pocket Kings.

Seriously... my sample size is really small (since Party allowed me to filter out the PL tables I never accidentally sat there)... but in the few times I've sat at PL tables, the players are much looser and possibly worse then the NL tables. I can see it attracting bad players because they know people can't easily put their whole stack in pf. So they call looser. I think the potential for winnings may actually be better at PL then NL.

I think I'm going to check this out more now that I'm thinking about it.

[Antinome]

Some nice things about PL

Slowplay is never rewarded.
Calling down with draws is not rewarded as much.
People play looser thinking they can't be hurt as much.
You really learn how to develop strategies for controlling pot size over several streets.

Some interesting things:
An unraised pot preflop, even if potted on every other street and called will only win 54BB in a blind battle, 67BB if one of the players is the BB. A preflop minraise guarantees you will be able to easily get your whole 120BB stack in without the active cooperation- other than calling- of your opponent. Of course a real raise is better, but if you are speculating, you *have* to bump it up if you can't get 2 limpers, or realize your winnings are capped.

The LRR is not as dumb a move as it is in NL.

Some bad things:
Combo draws have less value, because it is hard to generate FE. In PL, these are check-raising hands if your opponents will not cooperate with a b3bai, and usually they will not.

People who make terrible calls of river overbets are not punished as badly.

I find the small-ball comment really interesting. I consider myself a very good small-ball player but average at playing big pots. I wonder if I picked up some habits in all the PL I played.

[pokerchap]

the misclicks aren't as severe.

[ymu]

Your standard preflop raise becomes 3.5x+1 per limper instead of 4x - it's not such a big deal when 3x might work better for a LAG style anyway.

Pros include stopping short-stack push donkeys ruining the game. Cons include not being able to open push a draw - but a c/r push will often be enough to get effective stacks AI in a raised pot.

On a small practical aside, it makes raising/betting pot real quick - and in general the slider is easier to use for sensibly sized bets (on the site I use anyway), which makes the game a bit quicker.

One final point - not sure if it's a pro or a con - is that it is a more skillful game than NL. If it attracts more skillful players as a result, that's a con - but if it attracts less skillful players who are scared of NL, it's a pro.

[kurto]

I hear that it is a more skillful game.

In my limited experience in the last week or so, I don't think at the micros it is attracting a more skillful group. At first when I noticed that everyone was looser, I wondered if they were correctly adjusting to PL in a way I hadn't figured. After a bunch of showdowns, I say that they were just overly loose.

[ymu]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear that it is a more skillful game.

In my limited experience in the last week or so, I don't think at the micros it is attracting a more skillful group. At first when I noticed that everyone was looser, I wondered if they were correctly adjusting to PL in a way I hadn't figured. After a bunch of showdowns, I say that they were just overly loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be my assumption - if they're attracted because there is some limit on the size of bets they're probably very bad players, because most well-sized bets in NL are pot-sized or less anyway. Fish who want to chase their weaker draws will overpay just as much in Pl as NL.