6MAX When They Play back.......constantly.....

[tomonbass]

Ok guys pobodys nerfect.... and nor am I....

One of the hardest things that I come across playing the kind of style that I have choosen to play...is when players that act behind you start coming back at you after your raise with subpar hands....

And it constantly stumps me... I like it easy when they either fold or just call and then fold to your cbet... thats the games I like thats the games where I can just carry on picking up lots of little pots and increase my stack little and often.

But what is a good strategy to undertake when you are just being reraised constantly everytime you start to get involved in a hand... it frustrates me and takes me off my game as I dont really want to get involved in a raising war with 46s lol....

Any advice here???

Also on the same kind of topic in games where there is raising all over the place and its tough to get into a pot cheaply/at all.. it just ruins my game plan and throws me...

Any advice would be great...

ie the types of hands are good for a reraise/all in pf as they cant always have great hands to be constantly raising or reraising....

Hands to be calling the reraise with etc....

Any help on topic would be great....

Thanks in advance....

[Jigsaws]

Change gears. Tighten up. Profit from your loose and bluffy image to get paid off big on your good hands. Stack someone with aces, and loosen up again.

[4_2_it]

If someone is on to your game, then you have to change gears. 67s in a HU re-raised pot (even in position) isn't a place you want to find yourself very often.

[xwillience]

MicroSNL and SSNL both should be played pretty tigtly. There is not a WHOLE lot of benefit in raising 64s unless its from the BTN and the blinds are weak. The benefits of playing those small suited one gapers is more so later on you can get action with AA/KK etc.

But mostly if you just stay tight, you wont have to worry about getting reraised. and if you do, you know how to play appropriately.

and for the record, they aren't "playing back" nearly as much as we think they are. If we are really lagging it up at like 60/40 then sure, they are going to be playing back more than if we are 30/20. but realisticly, i only ever run that Laggy when i first sit down and catch AK three times in a row. If your fidning yourself in comprising situations with 64s, your playing them incorrectly.

[kazana]

[ QUOTE ]
and for the record, they aren't "playing back" nearly as much as we think they are.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to emphasise that point. Especially, if it's different villains "playing back". They usually are just picking up good hands within a short timeframe.
Just keep up the pressure and continue stealing as usual. Don't try to push them out with marginal hands - that's a big no no.

[kurto]

I don't want to be rude but it really seems to me that the answer is so obvious. I know this is my issue but I actually got irritated by this post.

If you don't know how to adjust to this, I think you're missing a lot of the fundamentals of ABC poker.

[ QUOTE ]
And it constantly stumps me... I like it easy when they either fold or just call and then fold to your cbet... thats the games I like thats the games where I can just carry on picking up lots of little pots and increase my stack little and often.


[/ QUOTE ]

You want to play where you raise and everyone folds. You're not looking to play poker. You want people to just keep folding. You don't know how to play poker when people don't just roll over? Go back and learn the basics. It sounds like you skipped to LAG without figuring out to play well.

[ QUOTE ]
But what is a good strategy to undertake when you are just being reraised constantly everytime you start to get involved in a hand... it frustrates me and takes me off my game as I dont really want to get involved in a raising war with 46s lol....


[/ QUOTE ] I mean... you really have to ask? I could show this paragraph to my wife who knows nothing about poker and she could answer this question.

[ QUOTE ]
Also on the same kind of topic in games where there is raising all over the place and its tough to get into a pot cheaply/at all.. it just ruins my game plan and throws me...


[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately you only have one game plan. And the kind of table you're talking about has the biggest potential for big pots.... and you have no idea how to adjust?

Last night there was a guy last night who raised every pot pf and bet every flop. He built up a nice stack (more then doubled his stack) and then gave it all down. He rebought and did the same cycle again. It was amazing watching this guy never change gears and give it all away. He would steal all the little pots and lose all the big ones. And I can't help but think he thought he was running over the table as he stole pot after pot. Meanwhile, the whole table adjusted to his game and switched gears as needed. You sound like 'that guy.' /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dazraf69]

Change tables

[xwillience]

[ QUOTE ]
Change tables

[/ QUOTE ]

this is somthing a lot of people recommend.

My personal opinion, is I never switch tables unless its just a horrible nit fest. I want to be able to beat them all.

[tomonbass]

yeah Im with you on that I want to be able to succeed or feel like I am able to play well within any table conditions and I think thats what annoys me most.....

So I need to learn to change gears more often Instead of getting stuck in the pound pound pound mindset...

[tomonbass]

ok Heres what I mean this guy has pushed the last 4 hands Ive opened.... I know hes a short but hes only doing it on the hands I O/R with ...

Now are spots like these a good spot to make a stand?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Tomonbass: $85.80
UTG+1: $11.55
CO: $22.95
Button: $54.30
SB: $58
BB: $51

Pre-flop: (6 players) Tomonbass is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="#cc0000">Tomonbass raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises all-in $11.55</font>, 4 folds, Tomonbass ?

[King Spew]

AJ, nope, I do not make a stand there.

BTW, my take on your 'problem' .......

your table selection sucks. If you like certain villains, then seek them out. Get off a table when you feel uncomfortable. I would think you want to look for tables with high VP$IP with low PFR%. Other people look for other types of tables.... you should look for the ones that 'work' for you.

I do think you are a tad one dimensional though. You need to have a few game plans in your quiver. Drop a stake level or two and work on playing against your norm. You will develop into a complete playah.... kinda the goal around here, isn't it?

[evilempire]

Easy call if he has done this four times already. And if you know he is going to push everytime only open with hands you are going to call with

[evilempire]

it's not taking a stand it's taking his money.

[xwillience]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call if he has done this four times already. And if you know he is going to push everytime only open with hands you are going to call with

[/ QUOTE ]

[jonyy6788]

Instacall that shorty who has done it repeatedly

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
But what is a good strategy to undertake when you are just being reraised constantly everytime you start to get involved in a hand...

[/ QUOTE ]
Adjust

[ActionStan]

I disagree. If he's running over you every time you open, push back. Use that stack a bit. I'd probably pass with AJo the first time he pushed, but that hand has plenty of value the 4th. The pot is offering enough overlay for all but 5 or 6 hands.

To the larger question, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. More active styles beget more difficult decisions with more people playing back at you. If you aren't comfortable making those decisions, play a less active style.

[SavageMiser]

You're going to have to adjust to the table or find another.

You may have one style that you enjoy playing, but you can't be stubborn and play only that style. OK, you can, but you're going to get sheared by players with a clue. Let the table tell you what approach will be most successful. Sitting down with the attitude "this is the way it's going to be" will make it a rough go.

[pokerchap]

very easy call if he has done it on the last 4 hands you have raised? he is probably some drunk idiot making a bet with his friend that you won't call or something. he probably has 310s.

as for your original question.. simply tighten up.

[absoludicrous]

You say you raise a lot, and are getting played back at often preflop. Give us some indication as to what stats you have.

For example, my last 10k hands have been spread between some NL50, NL100, and NL200...I've averaged out to be 28/17/2.5. I don't get played back that often preflop, but I play enough hands where I can steal a lot of blinds, and take away a ton of pots post flop with c-bets.

I'd be curious to see how much looser you are preflop. Just taking a guess, I'd say you're VPIP is more like 35%. If that's the case, and people start re-raising...tighten up, it's one of the most fundamental aspects of poker, switching gears.

There's nothing wrong with re-popping a villain who's re-raised you 5 times in a row...Try it, see what happens.

If you're getting frustrated, this isn't the style for you. Maybe you're in a transitioning period where you've switched styles and now you're seeing the differences. But just remember, there's nothing wrong with playing TAG...and there's certainly nothing wrong with switching back to a style that you feel more comfortable with.

[ymu]

You can tighten up a bit without them noticing much - focus on making more with your big hands - they'll call down/reraise much looser against you.

Your "problem" is kind of the point of playing LAG - you establish an image and then profit from it on your big hands. LAG it up a bit, then play tighter than they think you're playing, stack someone with a big hand, and then LAG it up again while that's still fresh in their minds.

Reads are critical - it's usually fairly easy to tell which ones are playing back with a weak hand because they're fed up with you, and which ones have finally found a great hand to trap you with. Play your good flopped hands the same as your air, play cautiously post-flop if called, and if you're lucky AA will slow play enough to let you stack him with a 7 high flush.

[tomonbass]

So play my usual style until table conditions change = I need to change.. then Instead of raising everything prehaps just raise with the High cards/big pairs... until I win a pot or two at SD with decent cards, then mix it up again...

I never really looked at it that way and kind of got stuck in 1 gear as mentioned since Ive had some success with it at obviously the right kind of tables... and assume that it will always work....

Ill try to gear down next time Im facing to much heat...

Thanks for the advice everyone...

[kabouter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Change tables

[/ QUOTE ]

this is somthing a lot of people recommend.

My personal opinion, is I never switch tables unless its just a horrible nit fest. I want to be able to beat them all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah as a 10nl player I never switch tables, sure sometimes I'm on a table with only 'good' players, but it helps me improve my game /images/graemlins/smile.gif besides when you multitable you will get some action on the other tables.
I'm certain table selection is very important if you move up, and you want to earn as much as possible.
Right now I'm trying to get better and the best way to do this is by playing against better players it seems.

[tomonbass]

[ QUOTE ]
You say you raise a lot, and are getting played back at often preflop. Give us some indication as to what stats you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I dont have PT as yet... I see roughly about 40% of flops not always openraising (mostly in position Im openraising if checked to)

[xwillience]

if yuur VPIP is 40, your way way way way to loose.

[Thrahl]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Change tables

[/ QUOTE ]

this is somthing a lot of people recommend.

My personal opinion, is I never switch tables unless its just a horrible nit fest. I want to be able to beat them all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. If youre at a table with an good lag on your left, leave. Or with someone who for whatever reason you are uncomfortable playing with, leave. Is your goal to prove to yourself you can beat a "tough" game or is your goal to make the most money? I think table selection is a big part of the latter even at SSNL.

As for the OP, your vpip should be no where near 40. Unless you have insane post flop skills and your Name is Samoleus your going to lose in the long run playing that many hands.