View Full Version : $50nl - AQo Against Tilting LAG
Villain is 92/50 after 3 orbits, has lost two decent sized pots in a row to me, is bluffing constantly probably tilting.
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)
Stack sizes:
UTG: $48
CO: $98.15
Button: $65.80
SB: $41.40
Hero: $76.35
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
2 folds, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $12.5</font>, Button folds, SB calls.
Flop: 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ($25.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB is all-in $28.9</font>, Hero calls.
Results:
Final pot: $83.3
Dave I
10-23-2006, 04:41 PM
I try have a bigger piece against these guys (any piece). But, I don't mind this. I've stacked many a maniac with A hight even after the flop. If he wins we'll have plenty of chances to take it back and then some.
ajmargarine
10-23-2006, 04:42 PM
You spew goot, sir!
redCashion
10-23-2006, 04:51 PM
Gah, no way I call here. I would want at least a piece of the flop to continue, and if he's as loose and tilty as he looks you should get another shot at him.
Shaddux
10-23-2006, 04:52 PM
I probably wait till I catch a piece of the flop before stacking him.
He could easily have some random hand like JT here, but this play has much more variance IMO.
Im not worried about variance, Im worried about +EV.
redCashion
10-23-2006, 05:06 PM
-EV
Shaddux
10-23-2006, 05:08 PM
I would rather be sure about being +EV (i.e. wait for pair), then not being sure whether I am +/- EV while simultaneously making a high variance play.
I probably should have stated my thinking more explicitly
What kind of range are you putting him on that I am so far behind. Given that I reraised preflop open pushing a K or monster is less likely. Getting 2:1 running into pairs some of the time is not devastating as Im only a 3:1 dog to JJ and below and non A kicker hands.
pokerchap
10-23-2006, 05:24 PM
I never call this. woah.
slickss
10-23-2006, 05:28 PM
I'd never call that bet unless you are absolutely sure he is on complete tilt, which is difficult at online tables.
You reraised his 8BB raise PF, how could he make that flop bet without a K?
Dave I
10-23-2006, 05:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
how could he make that flop bet without a K?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 92/50
[/ QUOTE ]
He makes this bet with ATC. Why? Because all of you fold the majority of the time. This is as good a time as any to let him know your not the one he can just push around. Add to the fact that your good pretty often and have outs if not and this is not a bad call IMO. We talking 60BB total here.
gumpzilla
10-23-2006, 05:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'd never call that bet unless you are absolutely sure he is on complete tilt, which is difficult at online tables.
You reraised his 8BB raise PF, how could he make that flop bet without a K?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because he's crazy and tilty. If he's playing 90/52, even over only three orbits, he's almost assuredly crazy and tilty.
I've got no problem with the call. I think it's relatively rare that you'll have fewer than six outs, and a good chunk of the time you'll be ahead. It's by no means a must call, obviously, but it's not bad. That said, if this guy has been that crazy and aggressive, I'm probably either calling or pushing PF. Inflating the pot PF and leaving yourself this type of decision doesn't seem optimal to me.
If you had a hand you are willing to go all in with a hand on the flop why wouldnt you check to the preflop raiser and let him bluff?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably either calling or pushing PF. Inflating the pot PF and leaving yourself this type of decision doesn't seem optimal to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like pushing a lot too. If you call are you pushing a lot of PSB cb's?
marvin_1935
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
when you 3-bet these kinds of lags pf you have to be willing to get it in on any flop. why not just call pf? if you hit your A or Q you can raise his cbet and happily get it in. pure spewage as played
sigurrostyp
10-23-2006, 06:00 PM
don't 3 bet vs a guy like this preflop with AQoff
Thrahl
10-23-2006, 06:18 PM
This may have worked out for you, and if it did, thats nice. But this is -ev longterm. If villain is that big of an idiot there will be much better spots for you to take his money.
redCashion
10-23-2006, 06:22 PM
So how did it work out? I'm going to guess villain had 99.
evilempire
10-23-2006, 06:25 PM
I would 3 bet this kind of player with AQ 100% of the time.
gumpzilla
10-23-2006, 06:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This may have worked out for you, and if it did, thats nice. But this is -ev longterm. If villain is that big of an idiot there will be much better spots for you to take his money.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if he donks off $50 to somebody else at the table and decides that's enough. Or if he typically buys in short and you're just catching him at the height of his stack. Against a slightly less crazy opponent this might be true.
cwar - it depends on the board. If it's J high or lower, I'd frequently push over the c-bet against this kind of opponent after calling PF. Decent chance you move him, decent chance you're ahead, and very likely that you'll have some outs when you are behind.
Villain showed Q7 for no pair no draw and I stayed good.
[ QUOTE ]
Not if he donks off $50 to somebody else at the table and decides that's enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
NH. He instantly left.
bmk67
10-23-2006, 08:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I try have a bigger piece against these guys (any piece). But, I don't mind this. I've stacked many a maniac with A hight even after the flop. If he wins we'll have plenty of chances to take it back and then some.
[/ QUOTE ]
Against most villians, this is an easy fold, no doubt we all agree.
Against THIS villian, I'm not 3-betting unless I have a hand that I'm willing to go to the felt with no matter what comes on the flop - because that's what it's probably going to come to.
I'd wait for a stronger holding than AQo, even though against this villian we're probably good more often than not.
oreopimp
10-23-2006, 08:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Villain showed Q7 for no pair no draw and I stayed good.
[/ QUOTE ]
well, you are really only going to argue for it when you won the hand. not saying anything, but most threads like this the outcome is pretty easy to spot. would u still argue for it if you were behind? if you would thats good.
I tried to be as non-results oriented as possible otherwise I wouldnt have posted it... The arguing mainly had to do with people saying I needed more of a "piece" of this flop to call which is not useful advice. I really appreciated the other lines offered (pushing pf and calling pf and attacking a J hi or lower flop CB).
Yaboosh
10-23-2006, 09:30 PM
He is 55/45 against the top 50% of hands. Fine call. He definitely doesn't need a piece of this flop to pull this move.
I would have folded without considering the equity you have against a random hand.
Shaddux
10-23-2006, 09:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The arguing mainly had to do with people saying I needed more of a "piece" of this flop to call which is not useful advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although I didn't necessarily argue this, I would like to know how it is useless whereas the "attacking a J hi or lower flop CB" is so appreciated. (IMO, pushing a J high flop is +EV against this guy--I'm not saying this is bad obv)
Chubbers
10-23-2006, 09:46 PM
I would call PF if you think button will fold to this raise after limping in. Otherwise isolating the SB with another raise is a good play... you gave no info on the button but i'd assume he would have folded being in position and not raising himself.
If it were the case the pot was $9 on the above play, i would have folded on this board to an all in bet.
As played, you were playing the hand all in from PF anyway so you had to call regardless.
Needing a "piece" of this flop is very vague. For example I would almost certainly call this bet on a 22J board or some other favorable texture saying I need to catch a pair to get it all in on flop without discussing hand ranges is being overly simple and not providing helpful information. Giving a range of board textures followed by a line is much more helpful than the "catching a piece" tid bit.
Shaddux
10-23-2006, 11:39 PM
I would assume that when they referred to "catching a piece," they meant on a similar board...otherwise, it is obv too vague, like you said.
What you're saying makes a lot of sense now, and I agree with you.
Waingro
10-24-2006, 04:05 AM
I thought this was fairly standard vs this type of opponent. You rr pf to isolate, size of raise is good, villain might fold to a push and once in a blue moon button has a hand. Then you get it all in on any flop. Nice hand.
Jouster777
10-24-2006, 06:38 AM
I'd say he has a pair or better 45-50% of the time on the flop prior to his bet. What was your read as to how often he is pushing the flop with air? Assuming whoever is ahead is a 3:1 favorite:
EV = .5x(.75*54-.25*29)+.5(.25*54-.75*29)=0
x=25%
He only needs to do this with air 25% of the time he whiffs to make it EV+. Seems well within the likely read.
SABR42
10-24-2006, 06:43 AM
This hand is standard.
This isn't a donkament, variance can go to hell.
You want every opportunity to take the tilting idiot's money before SOMEONE ELSE does.
JackAll
10-24-2006, 06:46 AM
Who was tilting? You or him?
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.