50NL 6m: KQs flops a flush draw OOP - play along. [Archive]

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Jigsaws

10-23-2006, 03:09 PM

Booyah. Not an unknown. Villain is 24/7/0.75 over 141 hands. My impression of him from a previous session is that he seems too weak-tight. He may just have had a run of second best hands in which he had to fold. He also calls small bets too much.

In this session I haven't really done, well, anything, so far, really. Two preflop raises + c-bets, that's it. Too card dead on this table for anything else.

I was somewhat lost in this entire hand because I was OOP (I need to learn OOP better), so let's take this one street at a time, shall we?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

Button ($19.25)
SB ($44.80)
Hero ($56.70)
UTG ($66.90)
MP ($48.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Standard call for me. I love KQs almost as much I love AKs.

Flop: ($4.25) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)

Check (with the intention calling up to a PSB) or donk, and why?

Dogballs88

10-23-2006, 03:24 PM

I don't neccessarily call KQ OOP, but in this case vs. weak-tight, it's fine.

Lead this flop - if he doesn't have an ace he'll probably fold. Even if he does, he may just flat call due to his lack of aggression. If he raises a reasonable amount you can still probably call profitably.

This is a good time to semi-bluff IMO.

pokerchap

10-23-2006, 03:25 PM

I usually just fire here. He is only calling with an ace and I think you need to disguise your FD.

Roadstar

10-23-2006, 03:33 PM

Especially since you think he's weak tight, a donk is fine. But donk $3+ to rep the Ace.

pokerchap

10-23-2006, 03:34 PM

do people really fold KQs heads up to the flop when oop?

Jigsaws

10-23-2006, 03:54 PM

Buuut... I don't donk with an ace here. I would with a set/two pair. Do all of you really donk here with AQ/AJ?

Dogballs88

10-23-2006, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Buuut... I don't donk with an ace here. I would with a set/two pair. Do all of you really donk here with AQ/AJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course - you probably have the best hand if you have AQ/AJ, so get some value for it and don't let him peel a free one off if he's the one with the draw. Only a donk wouldn't bet his ace in this situation.

Jigsaws

10-23-2006, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Of course - you probably have the best hand if you have AQ/AJ, so get some value for it and don't let him peel a free one off if he's the one with the draw. Only a donk wouldn't bet his ace in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
<--- donk.

I think you're too concerned with protecting against a draw there. The only draw that makes sense with a 7% PFR is KQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, maybe KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif/QJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I think donking with AQ/AJ there is almost turning your hand into a bluff already.

Anyhow. I guess the consensus is to lead. Obv. I didn't.

Flop: ($4.25) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3, Hero calls $3.

This could be a standard c-bet, but I believe many of his hands do include an ace.

Turn: ($10.25) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Do I go for the check-raise, or do I lead?

gumpzilla

10-23-2006, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Do I go for the check-raise, or do I lead?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it matters too much because I think you're probably getting very little after this. You've played the hand in a way that looks extremely consistent with a flush draw, and it got there against a tightish opponent who isn't terribly aggressive. If you check, I think an A checks behind pretty regularly and then maybe you can get a small river bet in.

I would lead this flop. I would also usually lead this flop with an A. Particularly since you're calling in the BB, he doesn't necessarily have to put you on an A when you lead in that spot. (EDIT: Also, flush cards, even if you think they are unrealistic for him, are likely to kill any action you may get when you do have an A, and so getting money in there sooner rather than later is important.)

Shaddux

10-23-2006, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't neccessarily call KQ OOP, but in this case vs. weak-tight, it's fine.

Lead this flop - if he doesn't have an ace he'll probably fold. Even if he does, he may just flat call due to his lack of aggression. If he raises a reasonable amount you can still probably call profitably.

This is a good time to semi-bluff IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of this. In addition, betting disguises are hand, should our draw get there.

Dogballs88

10-23-2006, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course - you probably have the best hand if you have AQ/AJ, so get some value for it and don't let him peel a free one off if he's the one with the draw. Only a donk wouldn't bet his ace in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
<--- donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK maybe donk is a bit harsh, but I'm more concerned about getting value from my ace than protecting vs. the draw, which is unlikely which you pointed out.

I too lead this turn, you just need to get value from your hand - he may not bet this at all for you if you check. If another spade comes on the river he's going to be even less inclined to bet for you or call unless he's stupid enough to think a jack-high four flush is good given your line.

Bet. Build a pot. If it was just a CB you're not getting anything anyways.

Thrahl

10-23-2006, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course - you probably have the best hand if you have AQ/AJ, so get some value for it and don't let him peel a free one off if he's the one with the draw. Only a donk wouldn't bet his ace in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
<--- donk.

I think you're too concerned with protecting against a draw there. The only draw that makes sense with a 7% PFR is KQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, maybe KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif/QJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I think donking with AQ/AJ there is almost turning your hand into a bluff already.

Anyhow. I guess the consensus is to lead. Obv. I didn't.

Flop: ($4.25) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3, Hero calls $3.

This could be a standard c-bet, but I believe many of his hands do include an ace.

Turn: ($10.25) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Do I go for the check-raise, or do I lead?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why its best to lead the flop, for deception. When the flush hits villain isn't necessarily going to give you credit for it. Also you will often take the pot down uncontested. As played Vs a Nit c/c turn, lead river.

Thrahl

10-23-2006, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course - you probably have the best hand if you have AQ/AJ, so get some value for it and don't let him peel a free one off if he's the one with the draw. Only a donk wouldn't bet his ace in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
<--- donk.

I think you're too concerned with protecting against a draw there. The only draw that makes sense with a 7% PFR is KQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, maybe KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif/QJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I think donking with AQ/AJ there is almost turning your hand into a bluff already.

Anyhow. I guess the consensus is to lead. Obv. I didn't.

Flop: ($4.25) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3, Hero calls $3.

This could be a standard c-bet, but I believe many of his hands do include an ace.

Turn: ($10.25) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

Do I go for the check-raise, or do I lead?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why its best to lead the flop, for deception. When the flush hits villain isn't necessarily going to give you credit for it. Also you will often take the pot down uncontested. As played Vs a Nit c/c turn, lead river.