No whiners, delusional folks allowed! Only realists- The FINAL test [Archive]

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jojo11

10-22-2006, 05:24 PM

Neteller will no doubt pull out when the 270 deadine expires if not before.

This forum is full of idiots or rather delusional folk trying to hold on to that last shred of hope by whining/bickering/dreaming/typing away.

Fair enough, if there's a feasible method available, we should remain optimistic, but the reality is, not one person has mentioned or detailed a method/plan to carry out transactions.

Now I'm NOT talking about methods for the pros or enthusiasts. I'm talking about the average joe.

If just ONE person can outline a method or business model that will allow the AVERAGE JOE to deposit into a casino site we can remain optimistic. If however, there is no feasible model outlined well....I think that's self explanatory.

redbeard

10-22-2006, 05:33 PM

i think you'll find that other e-wallets that are not publically traded (as neteller is) will continue to operate much in the same manner that stars and full tilt (who are NOT publically traded) have stated they will continue to do. i've not used any other e-wallets, but i've seen posters who have said that click2pay, moneybookers, and centralcoin are all reputable e-wallets. the sites will promote these e-wallets so their customers can continue to play. the golden age of online poker may be behind us but the sky has not fallen yet. but maybe i'm just delusional who knows.

whangarei

10-22-2006, 05:36 PM

jojo11

10-22-2006, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think you'll find that other e-wallets that are not publically traded (as neteller is) will continue to operate much in the same manner that stars and full tilt (who are NOT publically traded) have stated they will continue to do. i've not used any other e-wallets, but i've seen posters who have said that click2pay, moneybookers, and centralcoin are all reputable e-wallets. the sites will promote these e-wallets so their customers can continue to play. the golden age of online poker may be behind us but the sky has not fallen yet. but maybe i'm just delusional who knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Instead the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve would be required to collect a list of online gambling Web sites within 270 days. After that, banks and credit card companies would be prohibited from making payments to companies on the list.'

And you think e-wallets that cater to casino sites will not be on the list?

[ QUOTE ]
but maybe i'm just delusional who knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do and you are /images/graemlins/wink.gif

2461Badugi

10-22-2006, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]

'Instead the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve would be required to collect a list of online gambling Web sites within 270 days. After that, banks and credit card companies would be prohibited from making payments to companies on the list.'

And you think e-wallets that cater to casino sites will not be on the list?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the nature of exclusive lists that they trail the market significantly. There will always be companies fighting to compete in what's an incredibly high-margin business.

It's no fun to change e-wallets avery three months, but people will do it if that's what it takes.

Synergistic Explosions

10-22-2006, 05:54 PM

I've seen many delusional posters, especially the one who wrote this: [ QUOTE ]
Could people not purchase cyber money (online currency)? That online currency could then be used to play online and be used to purchase many other things. We could set an exchange rate of say 10:1. When people wish to purchase something in dollars, they can go to a currency broker and exchange the cyber money for $.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you rate that on your delusional measuring scale?

jojo11

10-22-2006, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

'Instead the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve would be required to collect a list of online gambling Web sites within 270 days. After that, banks and credit card companies would be prohibited from making payments to companies on the list.'

And you think e-wallets that cater to casino sites will not be on the list?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the nature of exclusive lists that they trail the market significantly. There will always be companies fighting to compete in what's an incredibly high-margin business.

It's no fun to change e-wallets avery three months, but people will do it if that's what it takes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm NOT talking about methods for the pros or enthusiasts. I'm talking about the average joe.

[/ QUOTE ]

2461Badugi

10-22-2006, 05:56 PM

Average Joes don't leave money in Neteller and move it back and forth between sites. They only use it to dump money into a single site, or take it immediately back out again. Changing ewallets would be much less of a pain for them than for us.

jojo11

10-22-2006, 06:03 PM

Fairly high. I never said I wasn't one. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

jackaaron

10-22-2006, 06:10 PM

Why do people think the "average joe" is a complete moron who can't figure out how to deposit money?

First off, they already know HOW to deposit. So, they're not going to lose that knowledge. The only thing left to them is the only thing left for us...where to deposit. We are all fairly confident we'll find a place to deposit. Sure, we'll probably switch places from time to time, and so will the "average joe." It's just ludicrous to call people delusional because they think that "average joes" will all the sudden shut off their freaking brains when Neteller goes away (if they do).

excession

10-22-2006, 06:32 PM

OK here are two:

1. Live outside the US (lots of 'average' people do)
2. Write a paper check..

Megenoita

10-22-2006, 06:39 PM

Jojo is probably right. The arguments against him are debunked already, as Party Poker died, and all the U.S. players went...nowhere. A few k to FT, some to Stars. The huge fish pond? Gone. Why? For the same reason that when Neteller dies, they're not going to do their do-diligence and find random e-wallet, and be willing to switch every month.

Michael C.

10-22-2006, 07:01 PM

I don't really see why we have to figure out what's going to happen in 6 months. I'm pretty sure that there will be some way to play poker and some way to deposit. To say we need to figure out what that way will be is just silly. Can't we just wait? Why does it matter if we correctly predict it or not- something will be there. Prohibition never works, and people want to gamble.

AJackson

10-22-2006, 07:07 PM

OP,

Please give me one example of the government 'outlawing' a popular vice that has resulted in any significant impact upon the public partaking in that vice.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

Demand is a powerful force. Like a river, it will find a way around or through an obsticle. The poker landscape may change, but it's far from being dead.

Jack Bando

10-22-2006, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Jojo is probably right. The arguments against him are debunked already, as Party Poker died, and all the U.S. players went...nowhere. A few k to FT, some to Stars. The huge fish pond? Gone. Why? For the same reason that when Neteller dies, they're not going to do their do-diligence and find random e-wallet, and be willing to switch every month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars and FTP are up around 1k daily (each) since Party went out. That's about 50% of Party's daily loss. So where are the other 2k? Some might be waiting things out, some might have quit, some might be on a poker vacation. Who knows? It's been a week since Party went down. Online poker's future is now measure in calander pages, not hands on a watch.

And to restate a point said many times, fish/casual players aren't idiots. Some might be doctors or lawyers, they just suck at poker/don't try to be good. Why would they just abandon what they're "good at"/love to do without searching for another way in? If you go to the mall and one of the four doors on the north side of the mall is locked, you try the other door.

Maybe I'm wrong, I hope not.

fusting4321

10-22-2006, 07:22 PM

Im an average Joe and my WU deposite went through about 5 mins ago.

So [censored] you

LearnedfromTV

10-22-2006, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im an average Joe and my WU deposite went through about 5 mins ago.

So [censored] you

[/ QUOTE ]

hah.

Seriously, all anyone who wants to play poker needs to do is go to pokerstars.com and do whatever pokerstars tells them. Click here to download, click here to see deposit options, we recommend X. it's not like average joe needs to know neteller got replaced by xxx beforehand.

LearnedfromTV

10-22-2006, 07:35 PM

ChexNFX

10-22-2006, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously, all anyone who wants to play poker needs to do is go to pokerstars.com and do whatever pokerstars tells them. Click here to download, click here to see deposit options, we recommend X. it's not like average joe needs to know neteller got replaced by xxx beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

redbeard

10-22-2006, 07:57 PM

ok jojo if i'm delusional then i'm sure you would like to make a gentleman's wager of some sort that i will not be able to play poker online from within the United States 365 days from now. i'll take the yes side and you take the no side. i'm sure other delusional posters here would like some of that action as well -- you could get rich just doing that.

I_C_ALL

10-22-2006, 07:59 PM

I posted a possible solution to this in another thread and asked someone with experience to comment. Below is the link. I have not done it, but the person responding to me indicated it could be done online.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=7739040&page=3&vc=1

The only difference is I believe you're supposed to report foreign accounts on your 1040, but I believe Neteller is considered a foreign account too. I haven't actually asked if that credit card can deposit to online casinos and pokerrooms, but considering the people in the UK can, I have to imagine its not a visa/mc thing and more of a U.S. thing.

Nikoms

10-22-2006, 08:01 PM

Stars and FTP are up around 1k daily (each) since Party went out. That's about 50% of Party's daily loss. So where are the other 2k? Some might be waiting things out, some might have quit, some might be on a poker vacation. Who knows? It's been a week since Party went down. Online poker's future is now measure in calander pages, not hands on a watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post. I am still in the process of setting up a Neteller account - as are several people I know. The fact is many people simply were not in a huge rush to go back out, sign up, and get locked out of a site again. Not everyone reads the 2+2 forums every few hours /images/graemlins/blush.gif to check what sites allow U.S. players, what's the best option for funding an account, etc. One reason for my hesitation was I simply busy last week + I wasn't sure whetherto go with Neteller or a lesser known e-wallet. Simply put, the exodus of Party fish (me?) isn't over yet - many of us are still swimming around slowly, looking for a new pond /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mendacious

10-22-2006, 08:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Stars and FTP are up around 1k daily (each) since Party went out. That's about 50% of Party's daily loss. So where are the other 2k?

[/ QUOTE ]

A significant number of the players probably also played more than one of these sites at the same time.

Xhad

10-22-2006, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jojo is probably right. The arguments against him are debunked already, as Party Poker died, and all the U.S. players went...nowhere. A few k to FT, some to Stars. The huge fish pond? Gone. Why? For the same reason that when Neteller dies, they're not going to do their do-diligence and find random e-wallet, and be willing to switch every month.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that Neteller isn't the average player's source of information. Party was. Stars is, for anyone playing on Stars through Neteller. "We're shutting your Neteller account" won't have nearly the effect as "We're shutting your Party account".

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the key. I actually had a non-poker playing friend approach me and tell me, "My parents like online poker but they said their site (Party) doesn't take americans anymore" and I pointed him to Stars and FT. If neteller shuts down, Stars/FT/etc. will do that for us.

kailua

10-22-2006, 09:23 PM

<<Poster: David Sklansky
Subject: Re: What About Sending And Receiving Cash Through Registered Mail?

Once again I apologize if I am saying something silly due to lack of knowledge:

Wouldn't it be reasonable and more importantly, NOT AT ALL ILLEGAL, to send and receive cash to and from sites by registered mail? If the amounts were small I doubt there would be too many cases of (usually fraudelant) claims that money was lost in the mail. Some procedure would be needed to deal with those claims but my instincts tell me it wouldn't be a big deal.>>

Can you see why not?

dragonystic

10-22-2006, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Neteller will no doubt pull out when the 270 deadine expires if not before.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. It's likely that they will pull out, but nothing is set in stone at this point.

[ QUOTE ]
This forum is full of idiots or rather delusional folk trying to hold on to that last shred of hope by whining/bickering/dreaming/typing away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure there are plenty of those people. (And I'd say you just joined that category yourself.)

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, if there's a feasible method available, we should remain optimistic, but the reality is, not one person has mentioned or detailed a method/plan to carry out transactions.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because Neteller is still in operation. Workarounds will come up as they are needed. And right now we're still in business. Just because no one has found a foolproof way around this doesn't mean there won't be one. It hasn't even been a month yet. Calm down.

[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm NOT talking about methods for the pros or enthusiasts. I'm talking about the average joe.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's likely that whatever way the pros find will also be suitable for your average joe. People wanna gamble. And the sites want money.

[ QUOTE ]
If just ONE person can outline a method or business model that will allow the AVERAGE JOE to deposit into a casino site we can remain optimistic. If however, there is no feasible model outlined well....I think that's self explanatory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I look forward to this day too. That way I don't have to hear any more "realists" talk about how everything is crashing down.

PairTheBoard

10-22-2006, 10:58 PM

Paper Checks

This route may not reduce the number of casual players as much as you might think. I think a lot of casual players were reluctant to provide internet links to their bank accounts to begin with. I know I was. Paper checks might not be that much of a barrier.

What definitely does go away is the Tilting compulsive loser who used to get instant credit on his party account through igmPay. Now he will have a few days to cool off while his snail mail gets delivered. Maybe this will be good enough to satisfy those who want to protect the compulsive gamblers.

PairTheBoard

Dave G.

10-22-2006, 11:31 PM

The poker sites are going to be the ones going to the effort of:

a) finding ways for people to get money into their site
b) leading new players through the stages of signing up, holding their hands and so forth.

We don't need to care about it or find a way, they will. They have hundreds of millions of reasons a year to do it. It's not as though poker sites are going to sit with their thumbs up their asses and go 'wtf? no neteller?? omg wat do we do'. They will do what they've always done - make it as painless as possible to get peoples money into their site.

In an unrelated matter, I often find that the term "bitter guy who hates his life" can be used in place of the term "realist".

uphigh_downlow

10-23-2006, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
OP,

Demand is a powerful force. Like a river, it will find a way around or through an obsticle. The poker landscape may change, but it's far from being dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you build a dam on it /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Indiana

10-23-2006, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OP,

Demand is a powerful force. Like a river, it will find a way around or through an obsticle. The poker landscape may change, but it's far from being dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you build a dam on it /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

water still flows over the dam:)

aces_full

10-23-2006, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why do people think the "average joe" is a complete moron who can't figure out how to deposit money?

First off, they already know HOW to deposit. So, they're not going to lose that knowledge. The only thing left to them is the only thing left for us...where to deposit. We are all fairly confident we'll find a place to deposit. Sure, we'll probably switch places from time to time, and so will the "average joe." It's just ludicrous to call people delusional because they think that "average joes" will all the sudden shut off their freaking brains when Neteller goes away (if they do).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a lot of people around here underestimate how fickle the "average joe" is. I have had two non poker playing friends come up to me and say "I hear online poker is illegal now". These folks aren't morons, they are just not in the know because they don't play, they don't read 2+2, and they aren't interested enough in the reality of the law. I'm sure there will be some percentage of "average joes" who will simply hear:"online poker is now illegal" and never do any actual research beyond that. They will simply find some other way to waste their money. I also think a lot of folks here (probably because they are college kids who aren't really old enough to know better yet) don't realize that right now is the golden age of poker in the US and that poker is enjoying this golden age because it is little more than a fad. And like every American fad before it, it will run its course, and Chris Moneymaker will be little more than a footnote in the history of US popular culture ten years from now. I mean, my local grocery store sells poker chip sets and even poker books!!! Anyone remember the ESPN series Tilt? I even see poker terms creeping into the vernacular. I read a financial article where the author referred to people making unwise investment choices as "poker players chasing an inside straight all the way to the river hoping for that big score". When Chris Moneymaker won the WSOP in 2003 no limit Texas Hold'em shot to the top of American popular culture. I would bet $1000 though that in 2002, 99% of the US population couldn't tell you who Doyle Brunson,Phil Hellmuth,Phil Ivey, and Howard Lederer even are. Personally I made my first poker bet more than a decade before the poker boom, but until the Moneymaker story, I never even gave so much as a thought to online poker.

I think that looking at the "average joe" as an action junkie that needs his fix is wrong. Poker has been around long before the internet, and anyone who wanted to find a game badly enough could. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I think Moneymaker winning the WSOP was the single biggest event that fueled the whole poker boom. Here was this "average joe" who won his way into the $10,000 main event by winning a small buy in (that virtually anyone can afford) ONLINE satellite. It's a classic cinderella story that launched the online poker careers of tens of thousands of wannabees. One need to look no further than the 2004 WSOP and other big tourneys which suddenly saw a huge jump in player fields, and prize pools the likes which never have been seen before in poker history. The Moneymaker story/online poker spread like wildfire because it had everyman appeal. How many of us have $10,000 and the confidence to put it on the line against tough poker pros? Or how many of us could take a week off from work, afford to fly to Vegas and buy into a satellite for the WSOP main event? Answer: a mere fraction of the poeple willing to invest $100 or less in a satellite tournament that they can play in their underwear from the comfort of their own homes. With online poker, people could play the game they saw on TV right in their own homes. What has better mass appeal than a "sport" that fans can not only watch on TV, but play themselves, possibly sitting across the table from the same players they saw on TV?

However, if you thought this golden age would last forever, you are clearly living in denial. Even before this new law, signs of the slowdown were already beginning to show. I had read recently that industry growth had started to stagnate-that is, the number of new players entering the game was equal to the number of players leaving the game. In the years prior, there was growth-more new players were entering the game than those that were leaving. I imagine that many players who came to poker because of TV lost money, found the game too hard, and simply quit. I also imagine that many simply lost interest. I know that most of my friends who started playing online have quit for one reason or another.

The new law I think only accelerated the inevetible, the shrinking of the fish pond. Poker growth couldn't last forever and at some point the bubble would burst. While I agree that losing players who need their fix will find ways to work around the new law, fish who play because "poker is the cool thing to do" just won't be bothered to take the extra steps to get around the new law. I also think poker as a whole will go back to the way it was pre-Moneymaker. Big live events will go back to smaller prize pools being contested by the same group of pros and televised poker will lose the everyman appeal. Offshore poker sites will also lose their advertising presence in the US, meaning less new players will be attracted to the game.

I see the future of online poker being much like the past-2007 and beyond are going to be more like 1998 in the online poker world. Sure some sites will still be there, but the days of multilpe sites having 80K+ players during prime time (US) are behind us. I think a lot of okay players who were killing the soft online games will be in for a rude awakening when games get tougher.

This is all specualtion though, I think it will take 6 months or more before we really start to see what, if any, impact the new law has on the game of poker. I think that the 2007 WSOP will be a very good indication of the impact.

blueodum

10-23-2006, 02:42 PM

The game is growing strong in Europe, and growth in Asia will sustain the online sites for decades to come. Just look at the increased popularity of the EPT this season.

The world is discovering the truth about poker: that it is a near-perfect mixture of intellectual challenge and pastime for the ordinary man and woman.

lowsarider

10-23-2006, 02:44 PM

Wow. Im afraid aces__full is right on.

hmhmmm. Let me clear my throat.

OH, CANADA!!! MY HOME AND (NON) NATIVE LAND!!!

Anybody know the rest of the words?

Nikoms

10-23-2006, 04:24 PM

While I do agree with aces_full to a point, I think to suggest that things will go back to the way they were before may be a little over stated. While I certainly I agree that there will be those who misinterpret the new law as making online poker illegal, or those who simply don't want to have to go through a new e-wallet or find a new site, the fact is there are many people that are still (yes, even now) just getting started, as well as a number of people, who, now that they have tried online poker, enjoy playing a SnG or a tourney in the evening, as opposed to flipping on whatever's on TV. I would suggest that some of those of us (yes, I include myself in the bunch) who just got involved in online poker and reading SSII or Harrington, etc. within the last few months will not simply walk away from the game we've just learned and that we actually enjoy. And make no mistake about it - live games are fun (I started playing live poker - albiet 7 card stud and 5 card draw as teenager with my family for nickels and quarters /images/graemlins/wink.gif) but where else other than online can you find...

1) any poker variation (Omaha, Razz, NLHE, LHE, Stud, etc.)
2) at any time of the day or night
3) for any stakes you want to play at (lower if you're tired or just to wind down - higher if you're feeling "saucy"...or lucky)
4) and play in your sweats, without having to drive anywhere.

Yes, there will be a drop off. But not all (probably not even half) of those who have had a taste of online poker will simply crawl back into their holes and go back to watching sit-coms. Poker's is fun, it's exciting, and, how many "hobbies" can you study enough and become good enough to actually make a little money (instead of spending it)?

Just my $.02 (which is a little lower stakes than I'd play at... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif)

Petomane

10-23-2006, 05:24 PM

What you're forgetting is that the average joe exists around the world. If we've shut out the American fish, we've also shutout the American 12-tabling automaton, the latter being the most destructive to online poker. Maybe this will level out the field a little more for the casual player.

Online poker will survive in America - where there's a huge demand... By the way, not a single cent was appropiated in the UIGEA bill for enforcement. They cracked down on Napster, yet people get free music to this very day and the recording industry put millions into enforcing illegal download laws. In who's interest is it to enforce the anti-poker bill?

Thee One

10-23-2006, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They cracked down on Napster, yet people get free music to this very day and the recording industry put millions into enforcing illegal download laws. In who's interest is it to enforce the anti-poker bill?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

IgorSmiles

10-23-2006, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im an average Joe and my WU deposite went through about 5 mins ago.

So [censored] you

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen Brother. THere are plenty of average Joes right here in this thread. THey are just to arrogant to realize it.

IgorSmiles

10-23-2006, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see the future of online poker being much like the past-2007 and beyond are going to be more like 1998

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...yeah. 50% of the US didnt even have email yet in '98, What's your next prediction? That due to the rising gas prices, Americans will return to Horseback?

athought

10-23-2006, 07:52 PM

*edit - I 100% agree that the average joe is fickle and that the current legislation is going to stunt poker's rate of growth in the short term, but I do not agree that poker's boom is a passing fad and that casual player levels will drop to pre-boom levels. There's no doubt it could not continue to grow at the rate it was, but that can be said for everything, but I still feel that it will continue to grow.

--------

Aces_Full puts together a well thought out argument. I respect the opinion and have engaged in conversation with others who have felt the same way about poker before the recent legislation. I personally don't buy it. I'm not going to be able to articulate my view nearly as well but I simply don't think poker's going to retract to pre boom levels.

1. I think the typical recreational gambler (the ones who play the other games like blackjack, craps, roulette, and slots and continue to make live B&M gambling highly profitable) is now more willing to sit down and play cards with their alotted gambling budget because they have seen the game on tv, played the game at home with office buddies, and/or online for free, etc, etc.

2. The boom (and the corporate buy-in) has put all this on tv and is seeding a whole generation/population of people who are familiar with the game now. You're population to draw fish from is simply much much larger than before the boom. The type who will play every now & then with his office buddies, or who will make the once a year trip to vegas is just much greater than it was before the boom. Think about 10 years ago. Think of how many people could tell you what a flush was versus today. I'm taking from your view that 10 years from now, people will forget all of this. That the one-timers had their one-time and they're done. I tend to think that one-timers had their one-time and now they're in. They may not be everyday players but they are now casual players. I personally don't want more pro players anyway, I jsut want a wider but shallower pool.

3. I'd like to point to a good comparable which I probably can't do as well as others (feel free to chime in). Maybe the X-games. Skateboarding was in and out for a long time and then Tony Hawk simply revolutionized it and made it main stream. Now you're simply "used to it". The X-games are on tv in various formats all the time, with major sponsors, and a lot of those events are even part of the olympics now. The one glaring difference here is that X-games are a more niche-market then poker. Men, women, young and old, can actually play poker - not just watch.

4. I'd even venture to say that all forms of gambling have benefitted from the poker boom. For a long time it had a stigma to it. But I think some of that has been erased as it has become more mainstream. Before if you said you played poker, you might get a look like you have a "gambling problem". Now it's a more acceptable pass time. Taking a couple hundred to go play with the expectation of losing it all is becoming an acceptable form of entertainment just like taking a couple hundred to go see an NFL game. (Which begs the question, why aren't the religious right concerned when I spend my life savings on a boat, or when I spend 200 a week on golf, etc? The way I spend expendable income on entertainment is my choice so long as it doesn't infringe on your rights. Crap wrong argument)

In closing - I'm sure there's plenty more reasons as to why this is NOT going to go away. There's no doubt, this recent legislation will stunt it's growth right in a period of acceleration, and eventually you might see the number of poker programming drop from 10 shows on at any given time to something more reasonable. WPT, ESPN coverage of WSOP & WPO, GSN Cash games, and FSN maybe. I have no clue if the celebrity stuff will last. But I don't think the growth of poker stops or it starts to retract, I just think the rate of growth slows, as must occur inevitably anyway.

But I may be way off just like I am with reading hands...

demon102

10-23-2006, 10:21 PM

I just see the recent legislation as a small roadblock to the American people. It might be different if the rest of the world's govnts were taking the same action as our's but that is not so. Most govnts are embracing this game and the business that it brings along with the tax revenues that they bring along with it. I see whats happening in the states as the same thing that has happened in Italy which I am very surprised no one has brought up. Italy banned online poker, I dont know much about it but in 2007 they are gonna open back up to online poker. To me this is that bright shining light at the end of the tunnel, which I expect to be a very short tunnel. Ours and other Americans voices as well as many voices outside of America will be heard and this new legislation will be dropped like a bad habit. nuf said