Limit player learning NL, was I right to try to get the money in here? [Archive]

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TimsterToo

10-21-2006, 08:36 PM

I'm switching over from 6max limit to NL. I've been reading theory and practice of NL holdem and I must admit that my head is spinning somewhat and I'm not even halfway through the book. This is going to take some time /images/graemlins/grin.gif

My question is, was I correct in trying (and succeeding) to get the two villains allin on the flop in this hand?

I figured that if only one would come allin with me it would still be +EV.

I put both of them on made hands that either of my draws would beat. Preflop probably a bit dodgy but I'm playing a bit on the loose side to get some postflop experience in, I'm not too worried about paying some learning money at these stakes. Nevertheless comments are very welcome on that aspect as well as I'm lacking any preflop standards at the moment. 

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
8 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $8.90
UTG+1: $2.60
MP1: $9.20
MP2: $4
Hero: $4.90
Button: $8.55
SB: $5.90
BB: $4

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($0.4, 4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.1, UTG+1 raises to $0.7, Hero raises to $2.5, SB folds, BB raises all-in $3.9, UTG+1 calls all-in $1.8, Hero calls.

Khaos4k

10-21-2006, 08:54 PM

You have 8 outs to a straight and 7 outs(8h and 3h are included in the straightouts) to a flush, giving you a total of 15 outs. Using the 2/4 rule that makes you a 60% favourite to improve by the end of the hand. So this is a +EV bet even with 0 fold equity. Get the money in the middle as fast as you can.

Pythuz

10-21-2006, 09:56 PM

That is, of course, assuming that all of your outs are clean, however, in this case its not such a big problem since you have two villains in as well.

I'm also starting on the 6m NL trail but I can't see wanting to do anything else in this spot, nice hand.

checkmate36

10-21-2006, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have 8 outs to a straight and 7 outs(8h and 3h are included in the straightouts) to a flush, giving you a total of 15 outs. Using the 2/4 rule that makes you a 60% favourite to improve by the end of the hand. So this is a +EV bet even with 0 fold equity. Get the money in the middle as fast as you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a link to the 2/4 rule? I didn't find anything in the FAQ.

Redd

10-21-2006, 11:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have 8 outs to a straight and 7 outs(8h and 3h are included in the straightouts) to a flush, giving you a total of 15 outs. Using the 2/4 rule that makes you a 60% favourite to improve by the end of the hand. So this is a +EV bet even with 0 fold equity. Get the money in the middle as fast as you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a link to the 2/4 rule? I didn't find anything in the FAQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Number of outs x 2 = ~% chance of improving on one street
Number of outs x 4 = ~% chance of improving flop->river

Note that the approximation begins to deviate (overestimating) more when you have huge numbers of outs. In this case, for instance, we're something like 54% instead of 60%.

hanster

10-22-2006, 06:20 AM

Just wondering why you limp pf? I see f > r > c, no?

Mjafish

10-22-2006, 06:38 AM

does anyone like an overbet push over utg+1's raise?

TimsterToo

10-22-2006, 07:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering why you limp pf? I see f > r > c, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

I limp with a drawing hand like this becuase I want to see a cheap flop and have as much people as possible in the hand.

Position wise I probably shouldn't have limped as a raise behind me would either ment a fold, or having to put in more money then I was prepared to, would I have had known beforehand there would have been a raise. The size of the raise and the amount of people calling after that would've decided that for me.

I'm new to NL and this table was very passive so lots of cheap flops, I was trying to play a lot of them just to get some postflop experience.