Options after Neteller?

[Lego05]

So what are the options after neteller?

Will e-checks work or are banks expected to stop these as a part of the regulations?

What about Central Coin? Has anybody used this before and is it a viable alternative?


Anything else...??

[mosch]

Once neteller actually dies (note: it has not yet died. the sky has not fallen.), something else will come along.

Depositing via credit card was illegal for eons, but you could do that on PartyPoker, using a US credit card, right up until the day they closed up shop.

There will be some reasonable convenient way to deposit, only problem is it might be slightly different than the current ways.

[JOHNY CA$H]

woah, whats happening with neteller?

[RunyonAve]

[ QUOTE ]
woah, whats happening with neteller?

[/ QUOTE ]
Reside under a rock?

[subwayslider]

I got a letter from Royal Vegas Poker on the Prima network, suggesting I use something called Click2Pay. I got the letter before this Neteller announcement too, if you want to read anything into that. I don't have a ton of faith in Prima, so I'm a bit skeptical, but it's worth looking into.



The Letter:

We have a wide variety of easy-to-use deposit methods to insure that you have a great time at the Royal Vegas Poker tables!

While one of these methods - FirePay has stopped processing deposits to Royal Vegas Poker on behalf of customers resident in the United States, we have many more deposit methods that you can use to continue playing with us.

These Deposit methods include: Click2Pay, PaySpark, Neteller, eCheck Moneybookers, your Credit Cards and many more deposit methods.

If you have not used Click2Pay in the past, we would very much like like to suggest that you convert to this payment option. We believe it to be the most suitable option for you.

With Click2Pay, you will be able to:


Create a single account
Deposit from virtually anywhere
Fund your account via Credit Card, ACH and Direct Debit
Ensure security via a personal code and password
Deposit small and large amounts

[spidey74]

MAIN TAKEAWAY:

Bottom line is that Neteller is still around now, business as usual. Neteller may or may not be around in 270 days, but we also have 270 days for players, e-wallets, banks, etc. to think of and establish workarounds. In this forum alone, we have already thought of 5 different workarounds in the first week after the bill was passed. How long do you think it will take for us to think of the workarounds after the law is enforced?? Not very long if you ask me.


Important Note: Though it is good to brainstorm some of the workaround ideas now, we need to be careful to keep some of these workarounds to ourselves until after the law begins to be enforced. You never know if the US government may be snooping around in these forums.

Spidey74

[Eponymous]

[ QUOTE ]

What about Central Coin? Has anybody used this before and is it a viable alternative?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've used Central Coin successfully several times in the past, but haven't tried it in the last year.

[curious123]

deleted

[joeker]

There will be plenty of alternatives to Neteller, there already are. The problem with Neteller going away is the reputation it has as an above the board honest company.

Players will need to be careful when choosing the alternatives.

As for ways to fund ewallets? 900 numbers, phone cards...the list goes on

[betgo]

I don't think they said they were going away after 270 days. It depends on what the regulations are.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
MAIN TAKEAWAY:

Bottom line is that Neteller is still around now, business as usual. Neteller may or may not be around in 270 days, but we also have 270 days for players, e-wallets, banks, etc. to think of and establish workarounds. In this forum alone, we have already thought of 5 different workarounds in the first week after the bill was passed. How long do you think it will take for us to think of the workarounds after the law is enforced?? Not very long if you ask me.


Important Note: Though it is good to brainstorm some of the workaround ideas now, we need to be careful to keep some of these workarounds to ourselves until after the law begins to be enforced. You never know if the US government may be snooping around in these forums.

Spidey74

[/ QUOTE ]

if they are snooping i hope they can see my personal message to them: FUUUUUUUUUKKKKK UUUUUUUUU

[OmahaGal]

I linked to CentralCoin from Stars and noticed that you have to submit your social security number. I don't remember doing that with Neteller and don't think I'd feel comfortable giving that information up to some offshore middleman. Why is that information necessary for a middleman to have? What do they need it for?

[I_C_ALL]

Now that everyone's going to give this more thought, I wanted to throw this back out there. What is the problem with a foreign bank account? Just like with Neteller, you will have to report it if the balance ever exceeds 10k as well as on your form 1040, but I hear the brits all use their credit cards to deposit. Since it would be a foreign bank not restricted from gambling transactions, we should be able to do the same.

Is the problem that our status with that bank will be a US citizen and the bank will stop us? I have to imagine those swiss banks don't give a [censored] what the US wants....

Anyone educated on this, please let me know. Why would this not be a viable option? I'd be willing to fly to Switzerland to do this. I always wanted to say I had a Swiss bank account. Minimum balance? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

btw, thought about this after I posted. Please don't respond with the "What about the fish" or "The fish will never follow"

[joeker]

[ QUOTE ]
Now that everyone's going to give this more thought, I wanted to throw this back out there. What is the problem with a foreign bank account? Just like with Neteller, you will have to report it if the balance ever exceeds 10k as well as on your form 1040, but I hear the brits all use their credit cards to deposit. Since it would be a foreign bank not restricted from gambling transactions, we should be able to do the same.

Is the problem that our status with that bank will be a US citizen and the bank will stop us? I have to imagine those swiss banks don't give a [censored] what the US wants....

Anyone educated on this, please let me know. Why would this not be a viable option? I'd be willing to fly to Switzerland to do this. I always wanted to say I had a Swiss bank account. Minimum balance? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Cuz to open a foreign bank account requires a large amount of money to either incorporate or register as a business in said country OR you have to be a resident in said country with an address there and identification

It's doable, but costly

[I_C_ALL]

What's a large amount of money? Are you guessing or do you actually know. I'm not challenging... I'm seriously asking. I would do this if it would cost a few thousand. Now if that number was 10's of thousands.....

Someone on this board HAS to be a US citizen AND have a foreign bank account and know the answer to this.

[joeker]

[ QUOTE ]
What's a large amount of money? Are you guessing or do you actually know. I'm not challenging... I'm seriously asking. I would do this if it would cost a few thousand. Now if that number was 10's of thousands.....

Someone on this board HAS to be a US citizen AND have a foreign bank account and know the answer to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's usually min deposit and min balance requirement of anwyhere from $5k on up for a foreign bank account.

Check the Isle of Man banks...they're cheaper than the Swiss banks and just as safe

[evabrighton]

There are problems within the EU with opening bank accounts. The bank usually wants some proof of residence within the country that the bank is located in etc etc...
If I was american I would go to the Caribbean somewhere...what about Canada?.
But don't expect EU-banks to be open to anybody, they are fairly strictly regulated...

But I am sure there wil be a trillion ways to get around this - there is simply too much money out there that wants to be directed into the poker sites and no legislation in the world can change that.

The poker genie went out of the bottle almost 10 years ago and the legislation cant reverse it.

Have faith, the flop will be good again soon!

[TXaces]

Swiss bank accounts are -- as far as I know -- readily usable by Americans without booking a flight to Zurich. You do not have to reside in Switzerland. Everything can be done by mail.

What about using eGold? The value of your account rises and falls with gold's price. I haven't noticed that as a poker site deposit method though.

From interpretations by legal experts (not regular posters)on Cardplayer, ordinary checks will not be affected by the new regs as there are just too darn many of them to track.

[scottc25]

[ QUOTE ]
From interpretations by legal experts (not regular posters)on Cardplayer, ordinary checks will not be affected by the new regs as there are just too darn many of them to track.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I heard checks are going to be exempt from the new law. I will try to find a link to confirm.....

Edit: The law says funding through checks is illegal but te provisions for monitoring have not come out yet. I guess we will see.

[WalkAmongUs]

I haven't had to deposit into my Neteller account in over 2 years. If Neteller caves, will we still be able to cash out FROM poker sites to Neteller and from Neteller to our checking accounts?

[autobet]

All forms of funding would be illegal, but if checks are exempted or impossible to enforce at least we could get money out.

The main problem is for the fish to be able to keep funding their accounts...time will tell.

[PokeReader]

Neteller already gave up the Maryland market after being threatened by state officials after Maryland banned online gaming, (article on media sticky). As a publicly traded company they are legally bound to follow all laws and regulations of the jurisdictions in which they operate, whether or not they are overseas. Therefore, it is extremely unlike they will continue, especially as poker is a minority of their business.

I posted these to a previous thread on Neteller, but as they haven't shown up on the official media sticky yet, here they are again,

What Would You Do Without Neteller? - including info about dropping Maryland

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Articles/11.aspx

Online Gambling Goes Underground - A U.S. law aimed at cracking down on Internet gambling may drive the practice more into the shadows and do little to deter bettors (excellent article predicting the future landscape and role of e-wallets, discusses existing private e-payment services and likehood of increased financial risk for poker players)

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2006/tc20061019_454543.htm

[WalkAmongUs]

[ QUOTE ]
All forms of funding would be illegal, but if checks are exempted or impossible to enforce at least we could get money out.

[/ QUOTE ]


the law only makes deposits illegal. Electronic cashouts are not covered in the law.

all we need is for 1 foreign ewallet company to sack up and say that U.S. law doesn't have juridiction over it.

which it doesn't.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
What's a large amount of money? Are you guessing or do you actually know. I'm not challenging... I'm seriously asking. I would do this if it would cost a few thousand. Now if that number was 10's of thousands.....

Someone on this board HAS to be a US citizen AND have a foreign bank account and know the answer to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a foreign account at Cayman National in the Cayman Islands. Its easy and I have a VISA card with them as well.

min. deposit there is $1000 and they have applications online.

[John Deere]

Are there any risks associated with having a foreign bank account? Do you report the interest on this account in your taxes, or do you just not let the US government know that it even exists? Do you transfer money between this account and a U.S. banking account, or do you just do cash withdrawals from ATMs?

Also, how much is the ATM fee? I looked at their Schedule of Fees, but it's not clear. (Or is an ATM withdrawal the same as a "Cash Advance"?)

[Sixth_Rule]

[ QUOTE ]
Important Note: Though it is good to brainstorm some of the workaround ideas now, we need to be careful to keep some of these workarounds to ourselves until after the law begins to be enforced. You never know if the US government may be snooping around in these forums.


[/ QUOTE ]

OH no ...... Um now i am scared , first my phone and now... AHHHHH I am saying tooo muuuchh. Please don't squash me like a bug.

[bluesbassman]

[ QUOTE ]
I got a letter from Royal Vegas Poker on the Prima network, suggesting I use something called Click2Pay. I got the letter before this Neteller announcement too, if you want to read anything into that. I don't have a ton of faith in Prima, so I'm a bit skeptical, but it's worth looking into.



[/ QUOTE ]

I've used Click2Pay to deposit funds into Full Tilt. It's worked just fine. So there are perfectly viable alternatives to Neteller right now. The problem is, I'm afraid all of these services will be shut down by the new regulations. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Sarge85]

Send Cash.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any risks associated with having a foreign bank account? Do you report the interest on this account in your taxes, or do you just not let the US government know that it even exists? Do you transfer money between this account and a U.S. banking account, or do you just do cash withdrawals from ATMs?

Also, how much is the ATM fee? I looked at their Schedule of Fees, but it's not clear. (Or is an ATM withdrawal the same as a "Cash Advance"?)

[/ QUOTE ]

THere are no risks. Just pay taxes on anything u make from it. Low fees on ATM w/ds.

Indy

[Indiana]

By the way, if u guys have never been to the Cayman Islands, you should really take some vacation time and go down there. Its the most beautiful and awesome place on the planet. Its the only place I've been where there are high quality coral reefs right out in front of your hotel. Its an expensive country but really worth it. I could post some of my vacation pics if anybody is interested. Did I mention that you can get great cuban cigars there?

Indy

[RGL]

On foreign bank accounts, you may want to peruse Hide Your Assets and Disappear by Pankau. It's a book by a private investigator giving advice for asset protection and generally getting off the judicial and financial radar. One section walks through off-shore banking havens. It rates countries on safety, ease, stability and confidentiality and gives detailed info about laws and account opening requirements. It's a good veiw of procedures from a source who's experience comes from finding people who make mistakes, and he seems to know what works to make his job impossible. It was written in 2000, and may be a little out of date on specifics. But the general profiles and advice probably till apply, and it's a starting point.

One hint: If you buy this book, you may want to pay cash at the bookstore and not associate your name with its purchase. Who know who's listenting?

[Layzie]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, if u guys have never been to the Cayman Islands, you should really take some vacation time and go down there. Its the most beautiful and awesome place on the planet. Its the only place I've been where there are high quality coral reefs right out in front of your hotel. Its an expensive country but really worth it. I could post some of my vacation pics if anybody is interested. Did I mention that you can get great cuban cigars there?

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I think it would be cool to see those pictures. You should post them in OOT.

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, if u guys have never been to the Cayman Islands, you should really take some vacation time and go down there. Its the most beautiful and awesome place on the planet. Its the only place I've been where there are high quality coral reefs right out in front of your hotel. Its an expensive country but really worth it. I could post some of my vacation pics if anybody is interested. Did I mention that you can get great cuban cigars there?

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I think it would be cool to see those pictures. You should post them in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have been perma banned from OOT.

[vabogee]

[ QUOTE ]


i have been perma banned from OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

DOH!!

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MAIN TAKEAWAY:

Bottom line is that Neteller is still around now, business as usual. Neteller may or may not be around in 270 days, but we also have 270 days for players, e-wallets, banks, etc. to think of and establish workarounds. In this forum alone, we have already thought of 5 different workarounds in the first week after the bill was passed. How long do you think it will take for us to think of the workarounds after the law is enforced?? Not very long if you ask me.


Important Note: Though it is good to brainstorm some of the workaround ideas now, we need to be careful to keep some of these workarounds to ourselves until after the law begins to be enforced. You never know if the US government may be snooping around in these forums.

Spidey74

[/ QUOTE ]

if they are snooping i hope they can see my personal message to them: FUUUUUUUUUKKKKK UUUUUUUUU

[/ QUOTE ]

George: "Hey Dick, take a note of this guy"

[ncboiler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, if u guys have never been to the Cayman Islands, you should really take some vacation time and go down there. Its the most beautiful and awesome place on the planet. Its the only place I've been where there are high quality coral reefs right out in front of your hotel. Its an expensive country but really worth it. I could post some of my vacation pics if anybody is interested. Did I mention that you can get great cuban cigars there?

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I think it would be cool to see those pictures. You should post them in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have been perma banned from OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell do you do to get banned form there? All I got were some sweet ass stars. By the way...I am an exhoosier.

[Indiana]

i got drunk and posted some stuff.

[addictontilt]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061020/to375.html?.v=5

this is a HUGE payday loan company might get interesting, they are considering buying an e-wallet

[checkmate36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


i have been perma banned from OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]



[/ QUOTE ]

That falls under the heading of "Brag" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GreaseTrap]

[ QUOTE ]
What the hell do you do to get banned form there? All I got were some sweet ass stars. By the way...I am an exhoosier.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Moderator for OOT is [censored]. Getting perma-banned by him depends on whether he's PMSing on that particular day or not.

If you've been banished to ** status for a few months and want to get your former 2+2 status reinstated, just send [censored] a private PM asking him to restore it. He usually complies.

[SoBeDude]

learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[5thStreetHog]

[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]Good arguement,cause its easy to find a game in my friends basement or local cardroom that has 10,000 people playing.Even if i lived in downtown vegas id still play alot online,too many positives playing online if you cant see them your not looking.

[mikeh1975]

if click2pay takes over all of neteller stuff all that is going to do is put a big bullseye target on click2pay and then they will be the next in line on the chopping block.BUT maybe they will stick with it instead of giving up like neteller.........

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[Steel Aces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

10K hand "downswing"? Doesn't that mean you just suck at poker. 10K hands??

[Steel Aces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From interpretations by legal experts (not regular posters)on Cardplayer, ordinary checks will not be affected by the new regs as there are just too darn many of them to track.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I heard checks are going to be exempt from the new law. I will try to find a link to confirm.....

Edit: The law says funding through checks is illegal but te provisions for monitoring have not come out yet. I guess we will see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side question on cashing checks - not depositing them: Can someone who looks into your bank records see these transactions? They do not show up on your bank statements. As long as you are not flagged for structuring transactions, is there any records kept on your account for checks cashed?

Anybody here KNOW the answer, not just a guess?

[latefordinner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

10K hand "downswing"? Doesn't that mean you just suck at poker. 10K hands??

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this statement probably means /you/ suck at poker. So you see why? Okay back to the topic at hand. WTF Neteller?!

[jrjunior31]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

haha yeah thats what is just so brutal about playing live... the 10k downswing may be only couple weeks or so worth of online play whereas at the casino you're talking anywhere from 2-3 months of losing... so fkn demoralizing... let's just say our prayers and hope for the best, gentleman

p.s. for the guy who thinks it means you suck at poker if u lose for 10K hands, you must be relatively new to the game, hopefully when you hit a similar stretch it is online and not at a casino...

[Cooder]

[ QUOTE ]
if they are snooping i hope they can see my personal message to them: FUUUUUUUUUKKKKK UUUUUUUUU

[/ QUOTE ]

The black helicopters are warming up. Dozens of men wearing black uniforms and holding MP-5 submachine guns are putting on their balaclavas.

Assume the position.

[Synergistic Explosions]

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2006/10/justice-officials-push-net-monitoring.htm

After reading this article, you better be paranoid while using the net.

[5thStreetHog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

haha yeah thats what is just so brutal about playing live... the 10k downswing may be only couple weeks or so worth of online play whereas at the casino you're talking anywhere from 2-3 months of losing... so fkn demoralizing... let's just say our prayers and hope for the best, gentleman

p.s. for the guy who thinks it means you suck at poker if u lose for 10K hands, you must be relatively new to the game, hopefully when you hit a similar stretch it is online and not at a casino...

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed,thats three days for alot of guys here.If you never had a bad three days playing poker,you have somehow found a way to avoid the laws of mathmatics,so congrats.

[iH8poker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

10K hand "downswing"? Doesn't that mean you just suck at poker. 10K hands??

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

[stinkpaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
learn how to play poker Live.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

and then kill yourself when you go through a 10k hand downswing

[/ QUOTE ]

10K hand "downswing"? Doesn't that mean you just suck at poker. 10K hands??

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, U R clueless junior. The statement you just made show how much you must suck at poker.

Please play at my tables.

[curious123]

lol balaclavaments

[damedash]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2006/10/justice-officials-push-net-monitoring.htm

After reading this article, you better be paranoid while using the net.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice post

[fish2plus2]

neteller doesnt answer emails.

[Ryno]

"Are there any risks associated with having a foreign bank account?"

There is an article in Worth magazine (the issue with Al Gore on the cover, not sure which month) describing the risks/rewards. You are supposed to declare all foreign bank accounts if the total balance of them exceeds 10k at any time. I. Nelson Rose once wrote that Neteller is considered a bank for the purposes of this law, and that the audit rate when declaring a foreign bank account for the first time is 100%.

[John Deere]

[ QUOTE ]
You are supposed to declare all foreign bank accounts if the total balance of them exceeds 10k at any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would keep my balance under 10k at all times... I would make regular ATM withdrawals and use the money for day-to-day shopping, spending, etc.

So I guess this seems like a good options, if I'm not legally required to report these bank accounts.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any risks associated with having a foreign bank account? Do you report the interest on this account in your taxes, or do you just not let the US government know that it even exists? Do you transfer money between this account and a U.S. banking account, or do you just do cash withdrawals from ATMs?

Also, how much is the ATM fee? I looked at their Schedule of Fees, but it's not clear. (Or is an ATM withdrawal the same as a "Cash Advance"?)

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to declare if you have a foreign bank account on schedule B of your tax return.

[Ryno]

It looks like that would be ok - from the IRS website:

FAQs regarding Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR)

What is an FBAR?
An FBAR is a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Account. The form number is TD F 90-22.1.
Who must file an FBAR?
Any United States person who has a financial interest in or signature authority, or other authority over any financial account in a foreign country, if the aggregate value of these accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year

[ubercuber]

I am planning on pursuing the foreign bank account idea as well. Can I assume that there are Visa debit cards or something that work for funding accounts? And if so, do these cards work in the US just like every other VISA card?

This seems like a great solution, but foreign banks could easily block gambling transactions for US account holders if they felt inclined. Is this unlikely to happen anywhere besides Antigua?

[HEK]

Let's say I open a new Party Poker account using my wife's name and foreign address. I then also open a new bank account with Cayman National Bank.

I don't mind using a 'fake' address for Party but I don't want to do that with a bank. So would the address I use for the bank and address I use for Party have to match in order to make this work?