50NL 6M: KK reraised preflop, fish cold-calls

[Jigsaws]

Button has sat down this orbit, but I assume he has some sort of clue since he makes a properly sized reraise.

SB is fairly fishy: 32/0/1 over 84 hands. She seems to be a little stationish.

Two questions: does anyone 4-bet preflop? I hate defining my hand so well, but I also hate not going to the flop headsup. What's my play on the flop? Shove? Call+lead?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($58.80)
MP ($9.50)
CO ($44)
Button ($49.25)
SB ($24.90)
BB ($28.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, SB calls $5.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($18.50) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $10</font>, SB folds, Hero shoves?

[Leviathan101]

Yes to shove on flop? TT-AA, (maybe not TT, but giving the button the benefit of the doubt.) and AK are all in his range. TT-AA calls everytime here I think. (it's not like they know you have KK or a set.)

I 4 bet this preflop, you are OOP the pot size is pretty good, and don't want to play multiway I think. Pot size is gonna get totally outta hand, and you think the button is compentent. I'll 4 bet and tell them what I have, rather then risk getting outdraw OOP. Better to win a small pot preflop, then lose a big one post flop yes?

[homeslice]

Against two villians, I'm more inclined to 4-bet this preflop.

As played, CRAI looks good to me.

[danny8]

def 4bet pf, you get calls all day from stuff you dominate. as played crai seems the best line.

[eternal_]

I think you should raise to 30 dollars. Villain probably has AA,AK or QQ. Don't see him having TT.
Preflop you could have raised to atleast 15-20 dollars but this looks fine too.

Results?

[Rev. Good Will]

I think C/R all in is good here.

times he has AK, you win pot immediately

lose against TT/AA, who are always gonna call your C/R

maybe get calls from JJ, probably get calls from QQ, definitely against KK

[xwillience]

[ QUOTE ]
I think C/R all in is good here.

times he has AK, you win pot immediately

lose against TT/AA, who are always gonna call your C/R

maybe get calls from JJ, probably get calls from QQ, definitely against KK

[/ QUOTE ]



this about what your suggesting for a moment.

your plan is to push out everything you beat, and get calls from everything that beats you. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Rev. Good Will]

AK - 8 combos (<font color="green">28.5</font>)

AA - 6 combos
TT - 3 combos (8% equity against range, pot size+ effective stacks = 71.5, 71.5*.08 - 43*.92 = <font color="red">33.84</font>)

KK - 1 combo (chop)

JJ - 4 combos (somewhat discounted here, thats why only 6)
QQ - 6 combos (now WE have ~92% equity, so 71.5*.92 - 43*.08 = <font color="green">62.34</font>

total ev (8/28)*28.5 -(9/28)*33.84 + (1/28)*0 + (10/28)*62.34 = ~ +21.67

still plus EV to push here

If we choose the call, then push turn, we get called by all the same hands here, and have similar EV's, except for the times when villian has AK, and he's 3 times as more likely to spike a A than a K, thus reducing our EV of doing that move.

So rather than give villian a "free" shot to outdraw us with AK, we should just push now anyway, for all those times we just pick up the pot now

[marvin_1935]

i'm pretty much always 4-betting this pf, given that you didnt why would you crai on the flop? you're wa/wb. call and either lead turn or let him bet his qq/jj again.

[marvin_1935]

results are trivial

[Shaddux]

Or we can just lead the flop and not worry about being outdrawn when we c/c.

[Shaddux]

[ QUOTE ]
results are trivial

[/ QUOTE ]
So?

Obv, results shouldn't be included in the OP, but maybe he's just curious.

[ActionStan]

[ QUOTE ]
Against two villians, I'm more inclined to 4-bet this preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lead the flop.

[matrix]

jam it preflop. given that you got 3 bet AND called it's a safe bet that one of them will call, usually with dominated hands like AK.

If button IS decent - and we really don't know yet as played I call the flop bet and c/r-all-in any non Ace turn -there's a whole one draw out there and if he has AK he's drawing at 3 outs, 3 outs don't hit very often so pushing here being scared of an Ace falling is WT imo.

If an Ace drops I'm check calling this down and making a hefty note on villains 3-bet range pf.

If you are going to raise the flop then push as any other raise totally commits us anyway it's not like we can raise to $30 here and leave $1.25 behind on the river and somehow get away later.

[Shaddux]

Yeah I just realized we act AFTER SB cold calls. With the donk-station in there as well, I definitely play this more aggressively pf.

[BombayBadboy]

I shove this preflop all day. &gt;12 already in the pot, I'm happy to pick it up. You most likely have the best hand. Calls from QQ,JJ, and AK are common at this level. The fact that somebody knows how to reraise properly doesn't mean a thing to me. As played, I push the flop.

[Sir Winalot]

I push preflop every single time. Flop I c/r AI.