New Neteller Press release. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

ridonkulous

10-19-2006, 02:55 AM

Neteller (http://about.neteller.com/neteller/upload/Pressreleaseupdate19oct06Final.pdf)

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its
related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction. This action is
intended to ensure that the Company is able to continue to operate with the support of
its principal commercial partners and to protect its shareholders, business partners,
employees and reputation.

Various provisions of the Act, including the obligations of financial transaction
providers such as NETELLER, remain unclear. This uncertainty should be largely
resolved when the Secretary of the Treasury and the Board of Governors of the
Federal Reserve System issue the regulations they are required to prescribe within 270
days.quote]

Phil153

10-19-2006, 03:13 AM

Cliff notes: Nothing has changed for now. Neteller continues to accept US gambling payments. They have accelerated their review of the Act and will monitor developments closely.

I read this statement as covering their ass. They will continue to do business as normal until someone rattles their cage or the intent of law enforcement/the banks become clearer, then they will probably bail.

Dunkman

10-19-2006, 03:14 AM

Yeah they can't really fly in the face of US law being a publically traded company. Lets hope that the steps they're taking to throw the burden onto the sites will be enough to allow them to continue to legally do business. That, or the banks just say it's too hard and no one tries to enforce this crazy law.

ridonkulous

10-19-2006, 03:17 AM

Nothing has changed for today. But Neteller is done, the only question is when.

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its
related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big Bend

10-19-2006, 03:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing has changed for today. But Neteller is done, the only question is when.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya thats what I figure too, they're gona wimp out like Firepay did eventually. Oh well, someone else will step up to the plate.

BB

Viscant

10-19-2006, 03:24 AM

Any idea on who that somebody will be, or when? Because this piece of news depressed me greatly. Worst piece of news in 2 weeks, imo.

I Hate Frist

10-19-2006, 03:45 AM

Does anyone know of ANY legitimate way to transfer money if neteller closes? I'd like to hop on it ASAP!

mikeh1975

10-19-2006, 04:13 AM

there is another payment option called click2pay and they are just like neteller.don't hear much about them though.yet........

mikeh1975

10-19-2006, 04:15 AM

by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

Dementia

10-19-2006, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, despite the inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend more time being proactive.

247boss

10-19-2006, 05:03 AM

seems like they have a 8 month and change life line left

AmonRaa

10-19-2006, 05:05 AM

Moneybookers will gladly accept your money, so will the sites using it as payment option (majority of them)

I Hate Frist

10-19-2006, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, despite the inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend more time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? "waste time hating him"? What, you think I sit around and just think about him? It's my screen name, it took about 4 seconds to write. And yes, as a matter of fact, I do hate him. In your face!!

5thStreetHog

10-19-2006, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, however much of an inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]No...i love people who force me to swallow their fake morality...liars... hypocrites....thiefs...how could any rational human being hate people like that? Your right,the best thing to do would be to send him lots a fuzzy warm hugs and kisses and give him the love and respect him and his kind have earned. /images/graemlins/heart.gifBTW,"maybe hes just doing what he thinks is right" is an idiotic arguement,i dont want to get accused of,and not comparing the two at all,but hitler thought he was doing what your right.(again just used that analogy to prove a point not making comparison between hitler and frist so save the post your thinking of making ,whoever wants to take what i said out of context)

roxtar

10-19-2006, 06:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Any idea on who that somebody will be, or when?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no clue who it would be but I can guarantee you that they won't be anywhere near as trustworthy as Netteller. That's what this law has in common with alcohol prohibition... Those laws didn't stop people from drinking - you only had people going blind from drinking bathtub gin and tainted beer. Same thing's going to happen with this law - it's not going to keep people from gambling, it's only going to have them going through disreputable companies that may rip them off and they'll have NO recourse whatsoever.

jmillerdls

10-19-2006, 06:23 AM

Do you think perhaps it will only regulate deposits from Neteller into poker sites? Or...will it be both?

Or will they simply ban all US consumers like everyone else is doing?

BluffTHIS!

10-19-2006, 06:32 AM

Here is the important point to keep in mind: even *if* neteller later decides it can't transfer our money to a poker site for a deposit, nothing prohibits them from facilitating withdrawals from that site to us. So if either the banks get the Fed not to make the new regs such that ACH transactions (checks and e-checks) aren't regulated, OR different ways of depositing can be found like one time vehicles (phone cards) or Western Union to an individual in another country, then we are still in business.

Note too, that neteller's primary concern right now is keeping their current banking relationship, and they may well be casting about for a new one, after which they will again change policy. If neteller either doesn't do that, or doesn't wish to be just the withdrawal company while others provide deposits to poker sites, then it will simply not have a reason to exist as euros and canadians with certain exceptions, have never absolutely needed them as we americans have, since in countries where online poker isn't prohibited, other forms of money transfer are more easily available.

Jeffage

10-19-2006, 07:02 AM

Actually, yes I do hate him. I can be proactive while still thinking he is a right wing nutjob scumbag who thinks everyone should abide by his religious beliefs.

Jeff

Webster

10-19-2006, 07:15 AM

The problwm is that the overall poke community is already down 15% which is PROBEBLY 15% fish!

If/when neteller makes it even harder that number will go up a LOT. Frisk and the republicans are winning.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really 'hate' the man?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually yes.

thetruest

10-19-2006, 08:02 AM

thetruest

10-19-2006, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, however much of an inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]No...i love people who force me to swallow their fake morality...liars... hypocrites....thiefs...how could any rational human being hate people like that? Your right,the best thing to do would be to send him lots a fuzzy warm hugs and kisses and give him the love and respect him and his kind have earned. /images/graemlins/heart.gifBTW,"maybe hes just doing what he thinks is right" is an idiotic arguement,i dont want to get accused of,and not comparing the two at all,but hitler thought he was doing what your right.(again just used that analogy to prove a point not making comparison between hitler and frist so save the post your thinking of making ,whoever wants to take what i said out of context)

[/ QUOTE ]

ignore him he's an effing troll

whangarei

10-19-2006, 08:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing has changed for today. But Neteller is done, the only question is when.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya thats what I figure too, they're gona wimp out like Firepay did eventually. Oh well, someone else will step up to the plate.

BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Weren't there reports Neteller was looking to go private?

But this quote is a little concerning out of the Isle of Man, where Stars and Neteller operate:

"Bill Mummery, the government's e-gaming supremo, was at the European International Gaming Awards (EIG) in Barcelona last week. He said many gaming companies are switching their focus to Europe and Asia.

He said: 'None of the operators want to trade illegally. That is evidenced by the huge amount of money they are spending on legal advice, in order to understand the actions in the US. For every threat there is an opportunity. If the short history of gaming is written in five or ten years time, these events will be seen as a water shed. No longer can firms put developing other geographical areas such as Europe and Asia, low down on their list of priorities.'"

IoM article (http://www.iomonline.co.im/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=872&ArticleID=1827685)

whangarei

10-19-2006, 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The problwm is that the overall poke community is already down 15% which is PROBEBLY 15% fish!

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious, where did you get these stats?

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really 'hate' the man?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't like to use the word hate, but let's say it's pretty close to that. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

kevstreet

10-19-2006, 08:32 AM

Sniper

10-19-2006, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the important point to keep in mind: even *if* neteller later decides it can't transfer our money to a poker site for a deposit, nothing prohibits them from facilitating withdrawals from that site to us. So if either the banks get the Fed not to make the new regs such that ACH transactions (checks and e-checks) aren't regulated, OR different ways of depositing can be found like one time vehicles (phone cards) or Western Union to an individual in another country, then we are still in business.

Note too, that neteller's primary concern right now is keeping their current banking relationship, and they may well be casting about for a new one, after which they will again change policy. If neteller either doesn't do that, or doesn't wish to be just the withdrawal company while others provide deposits to poker sites, then it will simply not have a reason to exist as euros and canadians with certain exceptions, have never absolutely needed them as we americans have, since in countries where online poker isn't prohibited, other forms of money transfer are more easily available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, the most important piece of info in the release is...

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was not unexpected...

What they are trying to avoid, is a statement in the Regs saying that US Banks are prohibited from doing business with, specifically, Neteller.

jackaaron

10-19-2006, 09:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing has changed for today. But Neteller is done, the only question is when.

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its
related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares? Seriously. If Neteller is gone, then we'll use something else. So will fish. Fish like to play. They think they're very good. They like sucking out...poker is FUN to them when they suck out. We'll find new ways to deposit and w/d, and they'll ask us, and we'll tell them.

jackaaron

10-19-2006, 09:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is the important point to keep in mind: even *if* neteller later decides it can't transfer our money to a poker site for a deposit, nothing prohibits them from facilitating withdrawals from that site to us. So if either the banks get the Fed not to make the new regs such that ACH transactions (checks and e-checks) aren't regulated, OR different ways of depositing can be found like one time vehicles (phone cards) or Western Union to an individual in another country, then we are still in business.

Note too, that neteller's primary concern right now is keeping their current banking relationship, and they may well be casting about for a new one, after which they will again change policy. If neteller either doesn't do that, or doesn't wish to be just the withdrawal company while others provide deposits to poker sites, then it will simply not have a reason to exist as euros and canadians with certain exceptions, have never absolutely needed them as we americans have, since in countries where online poker isn't prohibited, other forms of money transfer are more easily available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, the most important piece of info in the release is...

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was not unexpected...

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously add to these if I've forgotten any, but I can only think of three fears we have to deal with regarding Neteller's demise (IMO)...

Fear #1. We can no longer deposit.

Sites have continuously said that they will actively pursue as many new payment processing options as they can. They HAVE to pursue these options if they wish to stay in business like they have claimed. We will be able to deposit. Even if it isn't through Neteller, we will be able to deposit.

Fear #2. We won't be able to withdrawal.

If we can deposit, we should be able to w/d. I've been told that this part would be harder for banks to keep track of, but because that's not something set in stone, take it for what it is (speculation).

Fear #3. When it's harder to deposit, fish will give up.

This is hilarious. Fish will NOT give up. Not anymore than they would before. If a fish keeps losing, and keeps playing, he's as interested in continuing to play as we are. If he's losing, and stops playing, it wouldn't matter whether he could deposit or not. Some might say that not being able to deposit will be the final tipping point for certain fish, and it possibly could be. But, this will not be the case in drastic numbers.

SlapPappy

10-19-2006, 09:31 AM

Indiana

10-19-2006, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, yes I do hate him. I can be proactive while still thinking he is a right wing nutjob scumbag who thinks everyone should abide by his religious beliefs.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

The worst part is that these aren't even his beliefs. They are the beliefs of an extreme faction of the party that could get him elected.

Beastmaster

10-19-2006, 10:01 AM

Any chance they will sell and go private? Do you think another private supplier will arrive before Net bails?
I would think there would be options available before Net makes it final decision. and before the regulations are in place.

HSB

10-19-2006, 10:33 AM

So this basically means nothing.

tangled

10-19-2006, 10:37 AM

He pushed through a piece of legislation that takes away an activity that millions of Americans love, an activity that's an extension of our American heritage, without debate and with only a thirty minute warning, and maybe, you say, he thought he was doing the right thing. If he thought that was the right thing than he has no business being the most powerful man in the greatest legislative body in the history man. His handling of this legislation would make some dictators blush.

Not only that, How is it that he might think that online poker is so bad to be treated in such an extaordinary manner, but other forms of gambling, like horse racing, received no restrictions whatsoever?

I have no problem with treating even someone like Frist fairly, but this law's passing had everything to do with politics, not with right doing.

Sixth_Rule

10-19-2006, 10:49 AM

I agree neteller is out of the US eventually

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously add to these if I've forgotten any, but I can only think of three fears we have to deal with regarding Neteller's demise (IMO)...

Fear #1. We can no longer deposit.

Sites have continuously said that they will actively pursue as many new payment processing options as they can. They HAVE to pursue these options if they wish to stay in business like they have claimed. We will be able to deposit. Even if it isn't through Neteller, we will be able to deposit.

Fear #2. We won't be able to withdrawal.

If we can deposit, we should be able to w/d. I've been told that this part would be harder for banks to keep track of, but because that's not something set in stone, take it for what it is (speculation).

Fear #3. When it's harder to deposit, fish will give up.

This is hilarious. Fish will NOT give up. Not anymore than they would before. If a fish keeps losing, and keeps playing, he's as interested in continuing to play as we are. If he's losing, and stops playing, it wouldn't matter whether he could deposit or not. Some might say that not being able to deposit will be the final tipping point for certain fish, and it possibly could be. But, this will not be the case in drastic numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

drastic is a funny term. I think the problem is the public persception of what is happening.

Fear 1) Fish will believe they are breaking the law and find other ways besided internet poker to get their fix.

Fear 2) Many fish will lose every way they knew before of putting money into online gambling and assume that their are no safe ways left to do it. They may think it is to much of a hassle to try and get their fix somewhere esle.

Fear 3) lets say 15% of people win in poker 15 percent break even and 70 % are losers over the long term. If America is vigilant in their new law and 50% of all US players stop playing, most of the players they lose WILL come from the losers a almost NO winners will leave (why wouldn't they find a way to continue making extra money)

theghost

10-19-2006, 11:02 AM

Not to mention some of the new crop of payment processing sites that replace Neteller have the potential to be scams.

KEW

10-19-2006, 11:03 AM

If Netteller does back out it will put the rest of the US in the same boat as us Narylanders...There are others ways and more ways are popping up...E-checks are be coming more and more popular..

Sixth_Rule

10-19-2006, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention some of the new crop of payment processing sites that replace Neteller have the potential to be scams.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh and i thought of another one as welll. Neteller is a Big Legit. One of the big ways this law could not be enforced is if companies like neteller said that it was none of thier buisness. Banks in the united states would then have to make the choice to stop making tranfers to neteller, who do other things besides gambling tranfers. THis would be a hard decision. But new suspect companies that pop up would be easier, once recongnised for what they were, to ban from doing buisness with US banks.

joseki

10-19-2006, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is the important point to keep in mind: even *if* neteller later decides it can't transfer our money to a poker site for a deposit, nothing prohibits them from facilitating withdrawals from that site to us. So if either the banks get the Fed not to make the new regs such that ACH transactions (checks and e-checks) aren't regulated, OR different ways of depositing can be found like one time vehicles (phone cards) or Western Union to an individual in another country, then we are still in business.

Note too, that neteller's primary concern right now is keeping their current banking relationship, and they may well be casting about for a new one, after which they will again change policy. If neteller either doesn't do that, or doesn't wish to be just the withdrawal company while others provide deposits to poker sites, then it will simply not have a reason to exist as euros and canadians with certain exceptions, have never absolutely needed them as we americans have, since in countries where online poker isn't prohibited, other forms of money transfer are more easily available.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, the most important piece of info in the release is...

[ QUOTE ]
NETELLER, a company registered outside the US, will comply with the Act and its related regulations as if it were subject to the Act’s jurisdiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was not unexpected...

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously add to these if I've forgotten any, but I can only think of three fears we have to deal with regarding Neteller's demise (IMO)...

Fear #1. We can no longer deposit.

Sites have continuously said that they will actively pursue as many new payment processing options as they can. They HAVE to pursue these options if they wish to stay in business like they have claimed. We will be able to deposit. Even if it isn't through Neteller, we will be able to deposit.

Fear #2. We won't be able to withdrawal.

If we can deposit, we should be able to w/d. I've been told that this part would be harder for banks to keep track of, but because that's not something set in stone, take it for what it is (speculation).

Fear #3. When it's harder to deposit, fish will give up.

This is hilarious. Fish will NOT give up. Not anymore than they would before. If a fish keeps losing, and keeps playing, he's as interested in continuing to play as we are. If he's losing, and stops playing, it wouldn't matter whether he could deposit or not. Some might say that not being able to deposit will be the final tipping point for certain fish, and it possibly could be. But, this will not be the case in drastic numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reality #1. All of this [censored] is reducing the number of new fish. Most fish eventually quit, or at least slow way down. I believe that NEW FISH are the lifeblood of poker pros.

f1954

10-19-2006, 11:28 AM

And just by coincidence, Neteller is offline right now. Probably overwhelmed by players checking in.

brianmarc

10-19-2006, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Moneybookers will gladly accept your money, so will the sites using it as payment option (majority of them)

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so fast! While MB WILL allow you to upload funds from a US credit card, they will NOT allow you to transfer these proceeds to any gambling site.

badblood44

10-19-2006, 12:32 PM

What if a "Pokerstars entity" opens up a legal Neteller account from the Isle of Man? Then I transfer funds from one Neteller account to that account. Then "Pokerstars entity" makes the deposit for me into my poker account?

Too transparent?

Guthrie

10-19-2006, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, despite the inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend more time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate him. I hate everything that he stands for. I've voted Republican for four decades and I hate him. I hate that the Republican Party has been taken over by the American Taliban. For the rest of my life I will be voting NOT Republican. I hate anyone who seeks to use his position in the government to force his religion and/or moral views on me. Yes, I hate him. I loathe him, and all like him.

bluesbassman

10-19-2006, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, despite the inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend more time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate him. I hate everything that he stands for. I've voted Republican for four decades and I hate him. I hate that the Republican Party has been taken over by the American Taliban. For the rest of my life I will be voting NOT Republican. I hate anyone who seeks to use his position in the government to force his religion and/or moral views on me. Yes, I hate him. I loathe him, and all like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

I hope Mr. Frist dies a painful death, and soon.

I have voted either Libertarian or for the occasional palatable Republican my entire life (I'm old). I thought it would be a cold day in hell before I'd ever vote Democrat, but that day has come. (I'd vote Libertarian but I want to maximize damage to the Republicans.) Although I profoundly despise almost everything the Democrats stand for, they at least have one thing going for them: they aren't aligned with the evil lunatics that are the religious right.

Poofler

10-19-2006, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the way good name there I HATE FRIST.by the way i hate the bastard too....

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really 'hate' the man? Maybe he's just doing what he thinks is right, despite the inconvienence it may serve most of us. Perhaps this would all be playing out different if those of us who waste time hating him would spend more time being proactive.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate him. I hate everything that he stands for. I've voted Republican for four decades and I hate him. I hate that the Republican Party has been taken over by the American Taliban. For the rest of my life I will be voting NOT Republican. I hate anyone who seeks to use his position in the government to force his religion and/or moral views on me. Yes, I hate him. I loathe him, and all like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here here. When I step into the ballot box, I make a crying vote for the Democrats. Both parties spend funds in ways I don't agree with, but my vote has become far less crying over the last decade. Now it will be a smiling vote, as I try to push Jesus out of my Congress.